Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[Carl 9.3x62]

Swirling....... mtmuley

And yet, for some reason, I can't stop watching

 

[Hunt West]

Don’t worry pal....I’m just reading all of this now as I left this morning about 5 to go brand. Im just trying to process all of the BS rhetoric some of you spew. I asked a question the other day on a group chat that consists of about 6 of us Outfitters: “At the end of the day, what do you suppose the haters (being most of you on here) stand to gain if outfitters were to go away?” There are some very intelligent and successful people on that group chat and no one could answer the question rationally. The hatred that some of you have for our industry is absolutely unfu@#ing believable!! The only answer that I could come up with is access......plain and simple. I hate to be the bearer of bad news....but that ship has done sailed. I actually enjoy visiting with nonresident DIY hunters when I run into them in the fall......for the most part. Not afraid one bit to try and point them in the right direction, have even let some stay the night when the weather was terrible and the roads sucked and they couldn‘t get back to where they were staying, free of charge. Not an issue. I think Eric mentioned it once on here, but if it wasn’t for outfitters and landowners taking care of and managing game, it would all look like the overcrowded public and BM. Don‘t get me wrong, there are bad apples in our industry as well that give us all black eyes, I get that. This fighting and stone throwing BS has gotten out of hand!! Grow the f@$k up and quit throwing your suckers in the dirt!!

I actually have no problem with outfitters in general. My issue lies in the distribution of a license based on the financial ability to hire an outfitter.

 

[mtmuley]

And yet, for some reason, I can't stop watching

Yep. Over and over and over. mtmuley

 

[Wildabeest]

I won't bore everyone with the flow where the money goes, but it certainly affects more than a few hundred. Grocery stores, politicians, gas stations, lobbyists, ATV/UTV dealerships, Mac, car/implement, university studies with predetermined outcomes, NAPA, tire dealerships all affected by the money paid to landowners, guides, outfitters.

Your idea of a market driven license is something that a few of us(outfitters) have been thinking about. I wonder how well received by the public it would be.

Fixed it for you...

 

[Wildabeest]

The only thing Gerald forgets is that he does not have to first build the house, then wait to see if any perspective buyers draw a lottery license to purchase said home.

You chose to go into a business that relies ON A PUBLIC RESOURCE. Why can’t you get that through your head? You’re selling something you don’t own. Of course you should expect to have to be subject to the capacity constraints of that resource, and stand in line for it just like the rest of the public. Your whining about that is pathetic.

 

[TheJason]

Great come back! If all of you only knew how we got 637 (Eric does), you would prolapse and there would be a lynching of one of your own and goddamn would it be good watching.

Your juvenile behavior is astounding. I quoted your own words, and your reply is “great come back”? I’m rubber, you’re glue…..FFS.

You keep playing a false narrative of hatred of outfitters. I stated my stance of no, I don’t hate outfitters. Nor do I believe they should be allotted special licenses.

I’m not going to beg you to divulge your “little secret” about 637. Your sophomoric behavior is pretty epic. Nice games. You might be a big shooter but you don’t come across as a straight shooter from your displays here.

Sorry I can’t argue more. Have to work.

K bye.

 

[Eric Albus]

You chose to go into a business that relies ON A PUBLIC RESOURCE. Why can’t you get that through your head? You’re selling something you don’t own. Of course you should expect to have to be subject to the capacity constraints of that resource, and stand in line for it just like the rest of the public. Your whining about that is pathetic.

Try getting this through your thick head. I am not selling a public resource, I am selling a service that I offer.

 

[WIbiggame]

“At the end of the day, what do you suppose the haters (being most of you on here)

I don't hate outfitters at all. Have ran into a couple of them and eve helped one try and wrangle some horses that broke their fence they had setup at their camp in a storm. Giving up 1 day of my 9 day hunt to do this. I think you guys serve as a very valuable part to the hunting industry and wildlife in general; like you and Eric have mentioned the animals tend to live on your land at one time or abother eating crops, wrecking fences etc. I am sure that sucks but you knew that when you decided that as your career path and way you wanted to live.

Where my issues lis is how you feel entitled to your clients getting to move to the head of the line to get a tag.

Western hunting is at an all time high with people applying, you should have no issue finding customers if your regulars don't draw. Do some leg work update your websites have your regulars refer friends.

Tons and tons of guys even on here are saying it's my first time can someone give pointers and everytime that happens there is the response "hire an outfitter to learn the animals ehavior and how to hunt in the mountains" so even on a DIY forum guys are sending people your way.

If you truly valued the resource and not your pocket book you wouldve sucked it up this year and begged and pleaded to sit down with all stakeholders and worked out a compromise. I think you and Eric are both smart enough to see that even your biggest critics want and are willing to work with the outfitting community to better Montana hunting.

 

[WIbiggame]

Try getting this through your thick head. I am not selling a public resource, I am selling a service that I offer.

 

[Eric Albus]

The funds you spent on crops/plantings/cover, etc are all write offs. That's a Cost of Doing Business. You also had the choice to not do so, so complaining that you're spending money to increase wildlife on your property while complaining that they eat what you provide seems strange.

And according the Montana constitution and several case laws, wildlife exist as a condition of the land. They were here before you, and you can't claim them. FWP does have to make some accomodation when wildlife causes damage, but the law on that is clear as well. If you work wit hthe agency, they will work with you. But what it ultimately seems to boil down to is transferable tags/privatizing wildlife for the elites/tags for outfitters to make money off of.

All three of those violate the spirit of the public trust.

Sorry, to tell you but the crops are not a write off. They are cash crops planted with intent of harvesting, the amount left standing is to benefit wildlife in the winter. Self serving, to a degree yes. A write off No.

 

[Big Shooter]

Fixed it for you...

Nice try!

 

[Big Shooter]

View attachment 183336

That is funny! Seriously!

 

[HSi-ESi]

Try getting this through your thick head. I am not selling a public resource, I am selling a service that I offer.

A service that is tied to a public resource. Which you want unfettered access to (sell all the service). I get the argument.

There is a limited amount of public resource.

 

[NativeHunter20]

So if hunting outfitters are selling a public resource, are fishing guides selling fish? Does MT FWP get accused of selling animals for profit when they sell a license or auction off a permit for big $. So when a guy buys a hunt from an outfitter and does not kill an animal does he get his money back? I personally think that argument is so effin stupid. I am glad the governor signed this bill. Good for him! He is pro-business and this state will benefit from his decisions. Why in the world are all you guys standing up for non-resident DIY guys??? I would personally like to see non-residents hunting with guides than in my favorite area. I saw more damn non-resident plates last fall than I have ever seen! Some of them are good folks but plenty are not. We should be supportive of Montanans first!

 

[RobertD]

So if hunting outfitters are selling a public resource, are fishing guides selling fish? Does MT FWP get accused of selling animals for profit when they sell a license or auction off a permit for big $. So when a guy buys a hunt from an outfitter and does not kill an animal does he get his money back? I personally think that argument is so effin stupid. I am glad the governor signed this bill. Good for him! He is pro-business and this state will benefit from his decisions. Why in the world are all you guys standing up for non-resident DIY guys??? I would personally like to see non-residents hunting with guides than in my favorite area. I saw more damn non-resident plates last fall than I have ever seen! Some of them are good folks but plenty are not. We should be supportive of Montanans first!

Seriously whose burner is this?

 

[Deleted member 16014]

There are outfitters I appreciate and respect 100%...and now I can think of two particular operations I hate, and that have lit a fire under me to fight this BS in the west with what time and money I can spare. So thanks @Big Shooter and @Eric Albus for that.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

So if hunting outfitters are selling a public resource, are fishing guides selling fish? Does MT FWP get accused of selling animals for profit when they sell a license or auction off a permit for big $. So when a guy buys a hunt from an outfitter and does not kill an animal does he get his money back? I personally think that argument is so effin stupid. I am glad the governor signed this bill. Good for him! He is pro-business and this state will benefit from his decisions. Why in the world are all you guys standing up for non-resident DIY guys??? I would personally like to see non-residents hunting with guides than in my favorite area. I saw more damn non-resident plates last fall than I have ever seen! Some of them are good folks but plenty are not. We should be supportive of Montanans first!

The worst behavior I’ve seen in the mountains on public land hunts had been by outfitters. Running past me to chase elk, cornering a herd on horseback and running them down to jump off and herd shoot, a dozen night time shots fired just prior to the opener...all outfitters. My main competition for space where I hunt hard on public land is outfitters. Maybe it’s different where you hunt.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

And again there are outfitters that I absolutely respect. They aren’t the ones pushing this back door nonsense.

 

[shoots-straight]

So if hunting outfitters are selling a public resource, are fishing guides selling fish? Does MT FWP get accused of selling animals for profit when they sell a license or auction off a permit for big $. So when a guy buys a hunt from an outfitter and does not kill an animal does he get his money back? I personally think that argument is so effin stupid. I am glad the governor signed this bill. Good for him! He is pro-business and this state will benefit from his decisions. Why in the world are all you guys standing up for non-resident DIY guys??? I would personally like to see non-residents hunting with guides than in my favorite area. I saw more damn non-resident plates last fall than I have ever seen! Some of them are good folks but plenty are not. We should be supportive of Montanans first!

If that was the deal then they should have not increased any tags to NR. They should have stole them from the pool we increased during the 90's. There will not be less NR on public lands because of this bill, there will be more.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Sorry, to tell you but the crops are not a write off. They are cash crops planted with intent of harvesting, the amount left standing is to benefit wildlife in the winter. Self serving, to a degree yes. A write off No.

I had interpreted that description to mean cover & habitat improvement, not production crops. My mistake.