No Net Gain in Public lands passed Senate!

[shoots-straight]

If you are a sportsman that hunts and fishes, or even a recreationist that hikes public lands, then you need to write letters to your Senator and either thank them for voting against this bad bill or hold their feet to the fire for the vote against sportsman.

How anyone can justify voting for this bill is beyond me. This money comes from the sales of licenses, and was set up to purchase critical wildlife habitat that we could hunt.

Both of my Senators voted for this legislation. One is a Outfitter, and a member of MOGA. Go figure.

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MONTANA SENATE
63rd Legislative Session
2013 Regular Session
VOTE TABULATION
DATE: February 25, 2013SEQ. NO: 585 TIME: 02:40 PMBILL NO: SB 237 Agenda--Second ReadingSPONSOR: Brenden, John
Do Pass

YEAS 33
NAYS 17
EXCUSED ABSENT


Y Arntzen, Elsie Y Essmann, Jeff Y Moore, Frederick (Eric) Y Thomas, Fred YArthun, Ron N Facey, Tom Y Murphy, Terry N Tropila, Mitch N Augare, Shannon Y Fielder, Jennifer Y Olson, Alan Y Tutvedt, Bruce Y Barrett, Debby Y Hamlett, Bradley Y Peterson, Jim N Van Dyk, Kendall N Barrett, Dick Y Jackson, Verdell N Phillips, Mike Y Vincent, Chas N Blewett, Anders N Jent, Larry Y Priest, Jason Y Vuckovich, Gene Y Boulanger, Scott N Jergeson, Greg Y Ripley, Rick Y Walker, Edward Y Brenden, John Y Jones, Llew Y Rosendale, Matthew N Wanzenried, David Y Brown, Taylor N Kaufmann, Christine Y Sales, Scott Y Webb, Roger Y Brown, Dee Y Keane, Jim N Sesso, Jon N Windy Boy, Jonathan Y Buttrey, Edward N Larsen, Cliff Y Sonju, Jon Y Wittich, Art Y Caferro, Mary Y Lewis, Dave N Stewart-Peregoy, Sharon N Driscoll, Robyn N Malek, Sue Y Taylor, Janna

 

[BuzzH]

What a joke...they dont want to allow access to public lands via 235, or allow us to purchase more land to put into public ownership.

They need to be fired.

 

[whiskeydog]

this bill is a total joke...equal acreage doesn't have equal value. just because you trade 1 acre for 1 acre doesn't mean it's equal...

 

[webejmn]

Message sent, Rotten SOB's

 

[1_pointer]

I'm assuming this is only for state lands? If it applies to federal lands, I'd be interested in how that is interpreted with the current CFRs.

 

[Eric Albus]

I can agree w/ whiskeydog on his point of all acres are not equal, well put. However, "no net gain" is how it should be. I can see where exceptions could be made, but that makes laws ambiguous.

Cite me more than one good instance of the Gov't running efficiently? County Gov'ts are broke, the state gov't is broke...and the fed, trillions in debt? If you want something to run efficiently do not turn it over to Gov't..

 

[mdunc8]

While the economy may not be doing all that great, Montana had a $400 million surplus last year. The state government is far from broke.

 

[----]

Cite me more than one good instance of the Gov't running efficiently? County Gov'ts are broke, the state gov't is broke...and the fed, trillions in debt? If you want something to run efficiently do not turn it over to Gov't..

You're right, we'd be way better off turning that winter range into subdivisions.

 

[Carrion Carrier]

I can agree w/ whiskeydog on his point of all acres are not equal, well put. However, "no net gain" is how it should be. I can see where exceptions could be made, but that makes laws ambiguous.

Cite me more than one good instance of the Gov't running efficiently? County Gov'ts are broke, the state gov't is broke...and the fed, trillions in debt? If you want something to run efficiently do not turn it over to Gov't..

The State Gov't has a large budget surplus. Using it to wisely purchase important wildlife habitat is good for the people of this state. It protects THE STATE'S wildlife while attracting non-residents and providing hunting opportunities for residents.

You agree that exceptions should be made, yet you support a bill that doesn't allow exceptions.

 

[Pierre]

No net gain is NOT how it should be. Habitat Montana and other programs were built by sportsmen, totally funded by sportsmen, and supported by sportsmen! I certainly can give you thousands upon thousands of acres where we spent our money wisely for habitat and access.
Eric, as you outfitters lease up more and more acres of private land and exclude resident sportsmen, where are we supposed to go. Are you deaf? Have you not heard the shrill cry for ACCESS. There is certainly not enough and all efforts to buy or save critical habitat for future generations is a very noble cause indeed!

 

[shoots-straight]

Eric, I guess you would rather American Prairie Foundation buy the large properties available. We've went over this before. You and I individually don't have the capability to save large ranches that go for sale. We do have that capability when we pool our resources together.

Your ok with the Wilkes Brothers buying up 200,000 acres of Montana soil, so they can either grow oil wells all over it, or use our resources strictly for their pleasures. David Letterman, Ted Turner, Billionair Stan Kroenke (Walmart) 124,000 Broken O ranch Billionaires Wilkes brothers 276,000 acres in seven counties. CB Barret Intel Corp Exec bought up a large piece of the Root. There's no public hunting on much or most of these lands.

Your OK with that? It's ran better in the hands of Billionaires, or Montana resident hunters?

What we miss today, is gone!

 

[Pierre]

This Brenden bill will go down as a top contender for anti sportsmen legislation by the 63rd legislature. The R's are jamming this down our throat. Fight back! Let them know. I see mention of scorecard votes to legislators and they seem to think it is threatening. NOT. It is reality. Vote for one or more of these horrible bills and you carve your name in our memories at the ballot box.

 

[Nemont]

Eric, I guess you would rather American Prairie Foundation buy the large properties available. We've went over this before. You and I individually don't have the capability to save large ranches that go for sale. We do have that capability when we pool our resources together.

Your ok with the Wilkes Brothers buying up 200,000 acres of Montana soil, so they can either grow oil wells all over it, or use our resources strictly for their pleasures. David Letterman, Ted Turner, Billionair Stan Kroenke (Walmart) 124,000 Broken O ranch Billionaires Wilkes brothers 276,000 acres in seven counties. CB Barret Intel Corp Exec bought up a large piece of the Root. There's no public hunting on much or most of these lands.

Your OK with that? It's ran better in the hands of Billionaires, or Montana resident hunters?

What we miss today, is gone!

Shoots,

So are these billionaires breaking some law by buying land? If this is the line of reasoning you want to use, I can't support that. It's their money they can spend it how they see fit as long as it is legal.

What makes you certain you will always be able to hunt on APF lands? I don't think anyone knows for sure what their long term stance on hunting is. Some of the lands they bought have FWP easements attached so access is okay but if you don't trust Billionaires buying land why do you trust Billionaires and millionaires doing it under the umbrella of the APF? Seems like a pretty big double standard.

Nemont

 

[shoots-straight]

Shoots,

So are these billionaires breaking some law by buying land? If this is the line of reasoning you want to use, I can't support that. It's their money they can spend it how they see fit as long as it is legal.

What makes you certain you will always be able to hunt on APF lands? I don't think anyone knows for sure what their long term stance on hunting is. Some of the lands they bought have FWP easements attached so access is okay but if you don't trust Billionaires buying land why do you trust Billionaires and millionaires doing it under the umbrella of the APF? Seems like a pretty big double standard.

Nemont

I really don't think you read, and understood what I posted.

I asked Eric, if he would rather all that land be bought up by billionaires, and APF. I never said anything about either one being better than the other.

I asked if he would rather all that land be under their control, or some of it managed by us.( The resident sportsman and woman of Montana). We know what we're going to have then, Right?

Re-read my post, I never said APF was any better.

 

[Eric Albus]

Do I like the APF, or billionaires buying up Montana? No, I do not, but I can not vote in good conscience for the Gov't (state, county or fed) to buy property.

Pierre, sadly it YOU who do not get it. You continually blame the outfitters for the access issue...we are leasing approx. 6.2 million acres....there are 36 million acres of public lands, 30 million of which have "adequate access" according to the regulating agencies. Around 8.4 million acre of Block Managment, and who knows how many millions of private acres open IF you ask to hunt. So how on God's green earth can there be "an access issue"...cry, shriek, wail, moan....there is not an access issue.... If you will own up to the real problem, which is "Access w/ quality", well then you will have my attention. There is not one town or city in all of this great state that you can not find a place to hunt/trap/fish FOR FREE in less than a 20 minute drive....So how can there be an access issue?

 

[TLC]

now correct me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't the government buying up land, give MORE access to public land hunters? why would anyone be against that? unless you can lease the land they are trying to but for your own gain.

see, I pay attention in class occasionally.

 

[shoots-straight]

Do I like the APF, or billionaires buying up Montana? No, I do not, but I can not vote in good conscience for the Gov't (state, county or fed) to buy property.

Pierre, sadly it YOU who do not get it. You continually blame the outfitters for the access issue...we are leasing approx. 6.2 million acres....there are 36 million acres of public lands, 30 million of which have "adequate access" according to the regulating agencies. Around 8.4 million acre of Block Managment, and who knows how many millions of private acres open IF you ask to hunt. So how on God's green earth can there be "an access issue"...cry, shriek, wail, moan....there is not an access issue.... If you will own up to the real problem, which is "Access w/ quality", well then you will have my attention. There is not one town or city in all of this great state that you can not find a place to hunt/trap/fish FOR FREE in less than a 20 minute drive....So how can there be an access issue?

Eric, your grasp for situation is frustrating.

Habitat Montana money, is OURS! The state is just an agent. The land does not go into the DNRC account. It goes into FW&P's lands. All sportsman in Montana, and many Non residents and outfitters alike will benefit.

Habitat Montana was approved by our legislature to help purchase lands, and habitat. Now your saying that was a bad idea.

I doubt your looking at the big picture objectively. We the people, asked for this program. It give credence to the selling of non resident tags. If you want us to stop buying habitat, and do away with our most treasured program, then be prepared for a citizens initiative to reduce those non resident tags down to where they were in the 70's.

How about we only sell 11,500 combos' period end of story. Without the incentive to purchase of more lands, and access, we will loose our tolerance towards non residents, and outfitters. That tolerance is already reaching a boiling point. NO?

Toss us a bone here and explain something to me. Now why do I want to share my public wildlife with non residents, and let outfitters generate revenue from taking those NR hunters out, without Habitat Montana anymore?

 

[Nemont]

Shoots,

Please explain what I am missing in the idea that you would rather see the APF own lands?

Eric, I guess you would rather American Prairie Foundation buy the large properties available.

Thanks,

Nemont

 

[Pierre]

Nemont, I think you misread. He isn't supporting APF.
Many of us are landowners and private property rights are sacred. But, so are public property rights. We can't stop the sale of lands to big $ NR. It is their right. It is also their right to lock it up or outfit or lease to an outfitter. The rub comes when the public is excluded but MOGA and these NR want more tags for them and their buddies.

 

[Nemont]

Nemont, I think you misread. He isn't supporting APF.
Many of us are landowners and private property rights are sacred. But, so are public property rights. We can't stop the sale of lands to big $ NR. It is their right. It is also their right to lock it up or outfit or lease to an outfitter. The rub comes when the public is excluded but MOGA and these NR want more tags for them and their buddies.

I understand what the issue with MOGA and NR tags is.

I guess I can't read that into Shoots post. I guess I am just dumb.

Nemont