New Toy

[WT_in_MT]

I'm in 100% agreement with fowladdict on this. Some of you have probably seen my posts on 24hour regarding the accuracy of these gps maps compared to USGS Quads, actual BLM maps, and aerial photos. All of these gps maps use cadastral information the makers get from a variety of governmental sources. The cadastral shape files are based on GCDB information and therefor are only as accurate as the GCDB. Below is a map showing the accuracy of the GCDB information for Yellowstone County, MT. The orange areas are reliable to within 101-200 ft while the red areas are 201-440 ft. While a lot of the county is pretty darned accurate, there are also many areas where your gps mapping software is going to show boundaries that are off by 100 yards. I have the huntinggpsmaps.com software on a work gps and while it is "close enough" most of the time, I've had more than a few experiences where driving down a county road that I know is the section line, and there's public land that runs along the road, but the map shows me driving 50-60 yards away from the road and public land, to not be uber-confident in its accuracy. I will say, though, that the information these maps rely on is getting better and is quite a bit more accurate than it was five years ago. I usually go on a much longer diatribe about how superior the DeLorme units are as a hunting platform but will spare you all the agony!

In a nutshell, a fenceline that doesn't agree with your gps may in fact not be on-line and the gps may be correct. But, your gps map could just as easily be off by 100 yards so take what it's showing you with a grain of salt.

 

[fiveptbill]

I have not done it but I know it is done. There are also areas that it is difficult of impossible to put a fence up so people put them wherever they can. And this has happened a lot more recently then when our great grand parents were putting fences up. I know of houses that were built in the last 10 years that are across property lines.

 

[Oak]

In Colorado, a person can claim adverse possession of property that has been fenced for a period of 18 years uncontested.

 

[schmalts]

In Colorado, a person can claim adverse possession of property that has been fenced for a period of 18 years uncontested.

True in most states, but once again can be contested. The fence must be maintained and standing, and if there was acreage gained by the claim there is a dispute on who actually paid the taxes on it as well.

 

[mtmiller]

I was using mine yesterday when I came upon a section line survey marker. Since I am a gov't worker (errr....employee) I didn't get out of the ride, but according to the GPS, I was withing 18'. Close enough for what I was doing.

 

[Oak]

True in most states, but once again can be contested. The fence must be maintained and standing, and if there was acreage gained by the claim there is a dispute on who actually paid the taxes on it as well.

Here's a case from 2007 in Colorado. This wasn't even a fence dispute, just a neighbor claiming they trespassed nearly every day for 22 years, uncontested, so were entitled to their neighbors' property. The judge agreed.

Former Boulder mayor and ex-judge Richard McLean won a piece of a neighbor's property through a little-known legal loophole, scuttling the landowners' plans to build a dream home and setting off a firestorm of criticism.

Boulder District Judge James C. Klein found that under Colorado's "adverse possession" statute, McLean and his wife, lawyer Edith Stevens, are entitled to about one-third of the undeveloped lot owned by Don and Susie Kirlin.

The statute lets someone who uses another's property for 18 years without an owner's objection take control of the land under certain circumstances.

McLean and Stevens argued that they had used a strip of the 4,700-square-foot lot to reach the garden and deck of their home virtually every day for 25 years.

The story, first reported by the Boulder Daily Camera, has become a local cause célèbre. Some residents plan a picnic and protest at the empty property in the 2000 block of Hardscrabble Drive in south Boulder today.

"People are really (ticked) off, it hit close to home," said Mitch Friedman, who lives near the property.

The Kirlins bought the land for $55,000 in 1984. Over the years they paid taxes and took care of the property, Donald Kirlin said.

The land, which is next to open space and has mountain views, is worth more than $800,000 today, he said.

The Kirlins offered to turn over a 5-foot strip of the property to McLean and Stevens, but the couple turned the offer down, Don Kirlin said.

"I believe his real reason was to take a third of the property and not have a house next door to him," Don Kirlin said.

Kirlin, a commercial airline pilot, plans to appeal the decision.

McLean, a former RTD board member, said he couldn't discuss the suit because it is in litigation. He referred a reporter to his lawyer, Kim Hult. She couldn't be reached on Saturday.

The statute allows possession in cases where a reasonably diligent owner could be expected to notice that someone was using his land.

Kirlin said that in frequent walks by the property over the years, he and his wife never saw evidence that the couple used it.

Nor did they meet McLean and Stevens until they began planning to build a home for their retirement on the land.

If Klein's Oct. 17 ruling stands, Don Kirlin says they won't be able to build their house.
In his ruling, Klein said the doctrine of adverse possession justifies transfer of the title to the plaintiffs, McLean and Stevens.

"In this case, plaintiff's attachment to the land is stronger than the true owners' attachment. Whereas (the Kirlins) were unaware of plaintiffs use of the disputed land during virtually their entire 22-year period of ownership, plaintiffs have efficiently used the land on a daily basis. Given this history of use, the equities favor transfer of title," Klein wrote.

Klein "seemed to be fair and reasonable and conducted a very valid trial," McLean said.

 

[1_pointer]

Heck, I'd be 18' was within the error of the GPS! Pretty darn good.

These maps do look pretty slick, but if you want LOTS of states I'd think using the Delorme PN series with their data library/software would be the easiest way to get the ownership. Likewise, once you know how to upload shapefiles to the GPS it'd be a snap to get the info for hunt boundaries.

I know some folks that have had good luck with the Oregon. Their only concern was the durability of the touchscreen. I know of a one that has taken a digger within a year. FWIW...

 

[Oak]

Their only concern was the durability of the touchscreen. I know of a one that has taken a digger within a year. FWIW...

That was my concern with a touchscreen. I beat the crap out of my GPS unit at work.

I've been waiting for some time to pass to see what the verdict on the new Delorme units would be. Their earlier attempts were not awe-inspiring.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Isn't it the law in most states for the landowner to prove you were trespassing? Millimeter accuracy or not, he better have the same thing in his hands or a survey crew standing by to compete with what you have in your hands. Not likely to happen.

 

[sweetnectar]

If I remember correctly from a law class I took regarding boundry disputes....seems like it came down to if you don't like the results get a different surveyer and they somehow find you the extra yards you need to win your argument. The whole thing turns into a money sucking hole and both parties usually loose even though one is deemed a winner.

 

[mtmiller]

These maps do look pretty slick, but if you want LOTS of states I'd think using the Delorme PN series with their data library/software would be the easiest way to get the ownership. Likewise, once you know how to upload shapefiles to the GPS it'd be a snap to get the info for hunt boundaries.

Yep, I am sure you can get Indiana info on your DeLorme. If I want hunt boundaries that bad, I will upload them to my Trimble.

 

[1_pointer]

Yep, I am sure you can get Indiana info on your DeLorme. If I want hunt boundaries that bad, I will upload them to my Trimble.

I SURE CAN smarty pants!! That's the thing I like about the Delorme (from reading about it) is they have a program that allows one to upload and collect data much like the Trimble. By the way, what good would hunt boundaries do you on the Trimble????

 

[fowladdict]

I was using mine yesterday when I came upon a section line survey marker. Since I am a gov't worker (errr....employee) I didn't get out of the ride, but according to the GPS, I was withing 18'. Close enough for what I was doing.

Miller,

Did you punch in the lat/long(or coordinateslat/long) and have it "take you there"? or did you pick a point on a software map that roughly represented the corner? I've found that when I have the lat/long (or state plane coordinates) I've generally always been within 25 feet. My experience is somewhat limited with using programs similar to huntinggpsmaps, but I've yet to walk up to a fence line that I'm pretty confident was in the correct place and have it be within 80-100 feet.

 

[fowladdict]

300 yards is a big flippin deal. We weren't talking a few feet or yards. the Forest Service guy gave us an aerial photo with the borders clearly marked. I could of shot 2 other bucks, the next day in that draw that were way bigger than the one of got. I'll take my chances on the GPS next time.

From my experience Aerials showing boundaries are nothing more than a pretty picture. I used them on an everyday basis for getting general ideas of the areas I am going to survey, but never for boundary information. Personally seeing what I saw in the teaser and reading about your hunt I think you guys did the right thing. Those handheld GPS units and the mapping software are not intended to be used for locating property lines accurately. And based on what Big Fin said about drawing hunts in areas surrounded by private land he will likely run into the situation again. In fact he drew a hunt this year I had last year and I'm curious to see if he hunts close to the Colorado line (indian resy) and sees a similar distance error between the fenceline and how far his software tells him to go.

If that fenceline is indeed in the wrong place hopefully Forest Service and the landowner get it taken care of soon...with it being in the wrong place it takes away land from you and I.

 

[fowladdict]

Isn't it the law in most states for the landowner to prove you were trespassing? Millimeter accuracy or not, he better have the same thing in his hands or a survey crew standing by to compete with what you have in your hands. Not likely to happen.

I suppose the landowner could call the sheriff, but the sheriff might not elect to do anything. And as law goes I guess it depends on the state...I'm not 100%. As I understand it you or I can be sued for tresspassing and if it goes to court the landowner then has to prove you were tresspassing and you have to prove you were not. Not a headache worth it to me. If I'm ever hunting an area where I had doubts of a fenceline location and I would like to hunt it in the future I might look into it and try to do what I can to make sure you and I can hunt it without worrying about tresspassing.

 

[fowladdict]

In Colorado, a person can claim adverse possession of property that has been fenced for a period of 18 years uncontested.

Adverse possession can be a bitch for sure...luckily Adverse possession can never work against the United States and can only take place between private parties.

 

[MN Public Hunter]

I'm glad a few people are reporting on this software, ehmm..that I talked about in March in another thread I started and how it works pretty darn good. That is what I thought when I found it on the internet. Now if I ever get the gumption and dollars to go out of state I will have to get one of these for myself.

 

[Oak]

WT_in_MT, what software suite do you use with your Delorme (if any)? Likes, dislikes? The Enterprise suite seems great, but holy pricey!!

 

[sean baxter]

Which GPS is the best for hunting Colo?

 

[Big Fin]

WT_in_MT, what software suite do you use with your Delorme (if any)? Likes, dislikes? The Enterprise suite seems great, but holy pricey!!

I agree. I met with them about using their units in the show. Without the Enterprise Suite, the resolution/detail/precision was not what I had hoped for. With that suite those concerns were answered, but the cost was way more than I would expect our viewers to be laying out.

So, I am back to the old reliable Garmin 60CSX, which this week I will be upgrading with a new Garmin GPSMAP 62st. Looking pretty sweet from this information.

http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2...2-series-featured-in-new-videos-minisite.html

Give me a few weeks and I will know if the 62st is as good as it seems. If it works as well and as hard as the 60CSX unit we have used in the show, it will be a great unit.