New Mexico - Terk Overturned

[cfree]

Considering that many of the elk hunts with 25 tags have only 1 that goes to the NR; the ibex odds just went from about 1:128 to 1:1600 if only 1 NR tag is issued. I wouldn't have given NM $1600+ for those odds.

It's unfortunate because I live less than an hour from NM and have enjoyed hunting there over the years. It would be nice if a New Mexico hunting organization (NMWF) was focused on increasing opportunity rather than shifting it from one group to another. They lost all my respect when they were gloating about cutting NR hunters and NR youth to 2% when SB196 was emerging. The landowner and outfitter tags are the real elephant in the room and all these changes have only driven up their cost and solidified their position.

 

[LopeHunter]

I have never drawn a bighorn ram tag. I apply in states where I have 1:100 odds or better that my application will result in me drawing a ram tag.

Application fees, whether have to buy a license to apply and whether need to front the money are minimal considerations for me. If I apply for sheep in a state then I usually apply for most or all of the other big game choices.

I rarely use a guide and prefer to hunt public land but if there is a lot of hunter pressure, and God forbid ATVs in action, then I will look at private or using a guide to get far from the roads if is an option.

NM is not friendly for the non-resident looking to hunt on their own and the sheep odds just shot well above 1:100 so I am out of the NM game.

I have no doubt the tags that go to non-residents will find a willing buyer and plenty of applicants. Not sure if the impact of converting a nonresident tag fee into a resident tag fee will add up to enough to hurt F&G but it might in the short term. Not sure if the decline in non-resident application fees will hurt F&G. F&G probably wished it had a year to transition their budget.

I will miss hunting in NM. I may take what would have been annual NM application fees and buy a ram raffle ticket or two somewhere but not in NM.

The thing I notice is as a state changes the rules for non-resident then other states look a bit better, even those that changed the rules to hurt non-residents in the last few years. Glad I was born when I was and had a good run of over 20 years with enough funds to play the application game in the West. No denying I am near the end of my mountain hunting days in the next decade or so.

All in all, another nail in the coffin for big game hunter recruitment. Less hunters mean less pro-hunting voters are being nurtured for the future. States have voted in hound bans, trap bans, etc. Conservative states drift towards moderate and moderate towards liberal over time. What California thinks is a good idea today will be implemented in a few more states over time. You can see the change even in Montana and Wyoming. Rant over.

 

[elk_hunter]

Unreal. This is absolutely pissing me off. Thanks, NM, for bending sportsmen over!

 

[sbhooper]

I lived in NM for 11 years. I enjoyed the hunting and killed three oryx when it was only $41 to apply. I left NM and went back one year to hunt cow elk. Now, l cannot even get a cow-only permit. That is for residents only. I have to pay a full-priced application fee for an either sex elk. That is now one more place that I will no longer apply. If I go back, it will be to hunt cows on the Mescalero Indian Reservation-excellent hunt.

New Mexico has become an isolationist state as far as non-resident hunting. I wonder who is going to carry the financial weight now? Incredibly stupid on their part.

 

[bigeasygator]

That's a real shame. NM was always my favorite state to apply in given the odds and the way the draw worked. At least you felt like you had a chance. So much for that.

 

[nmtaxi]

Well guys, I do feel for you that have already applied. The timing is horrible. But, this injunction getting over-turned was long over due, and needed to happen. No where in the western united states did NR have the same chance at primo tags as residents. NM has had at least 1 desert bighorn tag since the early 90's. 2 years ago, when the number of tags went up, was the first time a resident drew a desert bighorn tag.
The tag allocation on the other hand, pisses me off too. No tags should be set aside for outfitters. I would love to see the full 16% go to NR DIY hunters. The fact that we have a ridiculous landowner tag system that greatly benefits the outfitters, plus giving them tags out of the draw is down right criminal. NM has a lot of problems, but getting this injunction overturned was one step in the right direction.
People are getting more involved in this state as far as game management. I think they took a step in the wrong direction with tag allocation, but I'm hopeful that will correct itself. Now that the Terk fight is done, hopefully we can focus on the landowner tag debacle.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

NM - get it together and get yourselves more tags by getting them back from the landowners and outfitters. Even the NR DIY would have more opportunities with a reasonable allocation of 16% of the tags. I'm willing to wager some of these NR hunters would even hire a guide so the outfitters would still survive without a tag giveaway. I suspect the outfitters are surviving just fine in Montana without their set aside tags.
Odds are now too long to justify donating to NM. …AND for that reason I'm out

 

[Oak]

I just received this reply to the email I fired off yesterday:

The Department is accessing impacts and options to hunters that applied for bighorn sheep, ibex and oryx.
Once the Department has determined the best course of action, we will notify the public regarding any changes to the
application or draw process for these species. Notification of any changes will be sent to the media and published on
our website.

Information Specialist
Information and Education Division
New Mexico Game & Fish
888-248-6866

 

[Oak]

I assume they meant "assessing."

 

[Monteman11]

I understand the reasoning nmtaxi, but to do it for this year after the application deadline has passed is legally irresponsible. We, the department and the applicant, signed a contract the moment money changed hands. There was no "fine print" that allowed the game to be changed at will. I have a feeling they opened a legal can of worms involving interstate commerce and bait-and-switch laws.

I got the same email Oak and responded. I think by the end of the day they are going to have a decision or an injunction may be filed. You can't accept money and then change the rules, I don't care who you are. I guess we will see. People are spending money on CC interest while they wait for the refund or reward and when it comes to monies of this amount, it can't be taken lightly.

 

[Z Barebow]

My first 3 elk hunts were in NM and I dropped out after the state tightened up the NR percentages. I had actually thought about jumping back in for elk and looked at Rocky Mtn Bighorn. I am glad I saved my money and I will continue to spend it in other states. I feel for those who were screwed by this ruling. If I were in your shoes, what a punch in the gut.

I don't see how the state will issue any NR tags other than an ewe tag for 53b/55. (Per npaden). And I agree. The court ruling effective has banned NR's from killing a NM ram.

Not coming to anyone's defense, but make sure the anger is properly directed. This was a court ruling, and now the state has to figure out the consequences (good and bad). NMG&F may as well put all of their phone lines on hold. If they answer, they are just going to be a punching bag for a ton of justifiably ticked off people.

Buzz- You are on a roll. Keep it up. If the state of NM followed your percentages for critters, I would happily ante up my NR app fees. Until then, it is a big country and I have plenty of other states to apply and hunt.

I don't think even Lloyd Christmas is dumb enough to apply for NM NR sheep. At least he had one in a million odds!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

 

[nmtaxi]

I completely understand why people are upset Monteman. The timing is horrible. The fact is, the law of NM dictates that there are quotas on all game animals. The Terk ruling was an injunction to keep that law from being enforced on those particular species. Now that the injunction was lifted, can the G&F not follow the law of the state? I don't know. Common sense says they should be able to make some concessions, but we're talking about government and laws here.

 

[nmtaxi]

Also, this appeal has been filed for a few years. The NMDG&F had no way of knowing when a ruling would happen. It's possible that their hands are tied.

 

[schmalts]

Also, this appeal has been filed for a few years. The NMDG&F had no way of knowing when a ruling would happen. It's possible that their hands are tied.

I highly doubt that is the case. The ruling allows them to apply the qouta but I read nothing saying they have to immediately. It's pretty insensitive to send out emails to nonresidents celebrating this ruling before thinking about how those effected feel about it and not including something about offering a refund of our money and application fees. I want my money back and right now because I have other states to apply for that have far better interest in nonresident DIY hunters

 

[nmelktrout]

Wow. I could not believe the timing of this ruling, much less the fact that it would apply (effectively retroactively) to this year's draw. That said, this was an injunction, so I'm betting New Mexico's response will be that every draw since the injunction was put in place would be subject to said injunction and therefore the quota is automatically in place the second the injunction is "lifted". Talk about awful timing and I'm sorry for those of you who have thousands of dollars invested in this year's draw. I know a couple of my buddies are taking action with their credit card companies.

I've been on the wrong side of the NM draw odds for sheep since I moved there... Couldn't draw a sheep tag when I lived there and will never draw one now that I'm gone. Good thing I got my OIL oryx hunt in when I did...

-Cody

 

[nmtaxi]

Schmalts, I'm not so sure about that. The quota is established by state law, not by the game and fish.

 

[LopeHunter]

Well guys, I do feel for you that have already applied. The timing is horrible. But, this injunction getting over-turned was long over due, and needed to happen. No where in the western united states did NR have the same chance at primo tags as residents. NM has had at least 1 desert bighorn tag since the early 90's. 2 years ago, when the number of tags went up, was the first time a resident drew a desert bighorn tag.
The tag allocation on the other hand, pisses me off too. No tags should be set aside for outfitters. I would love to see the full 16% go to NR DIY hunters. The fact that we have a ridiculous landowner tag system that greatly benefits the outfitters, plus giving them tags out of the draw is down right criminal. NM has a lot of problems, but getting this injunction overturned was one step in the right direction.
People are getting more involved in this state as far as game management. I think they took a step in the wrong direction with tag allocation, but I'm hopeful that will correct itself. Now that the Terk fight is done, hopefully we can focus on the landowner tag debacle.

Actually, State of Washington has one bucket with no NR caps.

 

[WapitiBob]

State law requires a quota, the injunction prevented them from enforcing it. The court ruling removes the injunction requiring the game dept to comply with the statute. What the game dept can do, depends on the amount and type of modifications the legislature has granted them.
Another reason not to allow the legislature to control your game dept.

 

[jlmatthew]

What a mess that was.

Feel sorry for the guys that already applied, but congrats to the residents of New Mexico for finally being out from under this.

 

[nmtaxi]

Another good point Wapiti. They never should have taken the quota to the legislature. It was an absolutely horrible idea. Those decisions should have been left to the game commission, where things are more easily changed. Leaving decisions on our wildlife up to politicians will lead to nothing but heart ache.