New Mexico - Terk Overturned

[Monteman11]

Monteman11,

Just so you know, I fought that bill in Wyoming and will continue to fight for NR's in Wyoming. These constant shifting of goal posts is not fair to anyone but a handful of Residents each year as a "best" case.

Its time for Resident hunters of each state to take off the blinders and think about the ramifications that their greed is having on long term applicants and their DIY NR counterparts. Its pretty tough for me to ask for support from NR's of Wyoming on important wildlife issues that happen here, then do nothing when their opportunities are being threatened via Resident greed.

I wont sell out DIY NR hunters to improve my odds as a Resident...wont do it.

I know you did, and we all appreciate it. I don't necessarily mind residents getting the major majority of tags. The only hiccup to that is they aren't the only ones paying for species introduction, management, and etc and it bothers me when they keep wanting more and more. Some residents don't even want NR hunters in their state! Not to mention, some of those monies comes from a federal level, but that is a different argument all together.

Residents never seem to see it that way and I understand that in some states a resident doesn't get to hunt deer, etc every year. That sucks but every state needs DIY AND Guided NR hunters for their economy and F&G budgets, and far too many don't see that.

 

[Monteman11]

I just emailed everyone on this list, and let's say I was not politicaly correct. I advise you to do the same if you feel like your thousands of dollars is being held for interest by the wrong party with misrepresented draw odds.
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/commission/index.htm

Done. I also emailed a bunch to those with emails listed the NM F&G website. If they want to change the deal, that is fine. Give me my money back so that I can use it elsewhere this year.

 

[mdhunter]

I agree with the others..moving the goal posts is B.S.

To waste my time and tie up the $4,810 of my cash for basically zero draw odds is very frustrating indeed.

 

[schmalts]

I am actually thinking about calling my credit card company and filing for the charges to be reversed. I really think it is a valid claim if they are not selling what they claimed when you applied and you still have not recieved any item for the money spent.

 

[MNHunter]

Glad I haven't applied in NM since they changed the allocations. Also glad I drew an oryx tag. Too bad I'll never get to hunt ibex.

 

[Monteman11]

Not sure of the number of nonresidents that apply for NM, but say 10,000 apply for three species which is roughly 5,000. Simple math makes that 50 million being held by NM F&G. Figuring 1% interest and holding money for 4 months, they are making $166,500...... That is simple interest, and they are probably making better than 1%.

 

[Jwill]

Monteman11,

Just so you know, I fought that bill in Wyoming and will continue to fight for NR's in Wyoming. These constant shifting of goal posts is not fair to anyone but a handful of Residents each year as a "best" case.

Its time for Resident hunters of each state to take off the blinders and think about the ramifications that their greed is having on long term applicants and their DIY NR counterparts. Its pretty tough for me to ask for support from NR's of Wyoming on important wildlife issues that happen here, then do nothing when their opportunities are being threatened via Resident greed.

I wont sell out DIY NR hunters to improve my odds as a Resident...wont do it.

A sincere thank you! Beers and a seat in the raft on me if you ever make it to SW VA.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

If they either don't stay with the current percentages for the 2014 draw or immediately offer anyone their money back that asks for it. there should be a couple hunters out there that are lawyers and a class action lawsuit should be started against the Department and/or Commission.

 

[brymoore]

Not sure of the number of nonresidents that apply for NM, but say 10,000 apply for three species which is roughly 5,000. Simple math makes that 50 million being held by NM F&G. Figuring 1% interest and holding money for 4 months, they are making $166,500...... That is simple interest, and they are probably making better than 1%.

I may be wrong but I don't believe they are allowed to earn interest on the money.

I'm also probably out of NM for the future. Too bad. I hunted Aoudad in Feb 2013 and Ibex in December this year. I like hunting the state.

 

[schmalts]

If they either don't stay with the current percentages for the 2014 draw or immediately offer anyone their money back that asks for it. there should be a couple hunters out there that are lawyers and a class action lawsuit should be started against the Department and/or Commission.

My guess is that we will see another email Tuesday. They seem to underestimate the amount of money nonresidents front and is held. This is by all mean misrepresenting a transaction sale and any credit card company should reverse charges.

 

[pointingdogsrule]

I'm not normally one to complain about non-resident allocation, and I have thought that NM resident hunters have been getting screwed on the sheep, oryx and ibex allocations. But it really pisses me off that they decided to change the non-resident allocation after the draw deadline. I now have $4,810 wrapped up in bighorn sheep and ibex applications, for which there can be one unguided sheep tag and zero unguided ibex tags. Perhaps they will allow up to 16% from the entire non-resident pool, as there was no option to designate guided or unguided on the application this year. In that case, there would be up to 2 tags for each species (for any weapon ibex).

This has got to be the worst case of changing horses midstream we have seen so far in the tag draw game. At least they didn't have a point system in place beforehand.

I'm in the same boat Oak. Maybe I'm wrong, however, 29 sheep tags (I believe) gets 1 unguided and 2 guided for non-residents. Am I wrong??

I support NM, however, changing the rules after applications is not good.

good luck to all
the dog

 

[pointingdogsrule]

I just checked and the current Oryx tags are out of a pool of 49 so 6% would be 2.94 tags and Ibex any weapon is a pool of 25 so that would be 1.5 tags at 6%. Not sure if they round up or down.

I don't see how they could make this effective this year, you weren't required to apply with an outfitter for those tags this year so the 10% quota would be moot. The way they do the other tags that would actually slide over to the resident pool, not the nonresident.

Very good point.... most people draw the Oryx tag then find an outfitter.

good luck to all
the dog

 

[BuzzH]

I dont think there will be any NR sheep tags available unless the commission decides to change the way the current law reads.

I dont see where its based on the TOTAL number of tags, rather on a unit specific tag numbers.

Even if it is one tag, how do they plan on deciding what unit a NR tag will be available in? What if you applied for 3 units that dont have an available tag?

What a joke, and I dont support NM any more.

 

[pointingdogsrule]

I dont think there will be any NR sheep tags available unless the commission decides to change the way the current law reads.

I dont see where its based on the TOTAL number of tags, rather on a unit specific tag numbers.

Even if it is one tag, how do they plan on deciding what unit a NR tag will be available in? What if you applied for 3 units that dont have an available tag?

What a joke, and I dont support NM any more.

Buzz: You're on a roll!!!! Keep going. You're gettin' me more and more fired up about this late change!!!

good luck to all
the dog

 

[jabber]

Not a whole lot I can add to what everybody else is saying. I support NM's right to change...next year, not after everyone has applied this year. They can make their changes next year and I will do likewise by simply not applying for my son or I in NM. No hard feelings for next year. I am pissed about this year though if they go through with their intentions of changing the percentages after the deadline.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

Didn't something like this happen with a lawsuit in AZ back in about 2004 with quotas? I see a lawsuit coming for the NM bait and switch.

Either way I'm out for NM now. They seem to think landowners own the wildlife and that outfitters deserve tags. I'll take my money elsewhere.

 

[Big Fin]

Everyone is justified to be PO'd, given the timing of this change. The person taking a beating lately when states change fees or other allocations, has been the self-guided NR.

I decided to tighten up the budgets for the upcoming season, so by fluke, I did not apply for the expensive tags in NM. Had this change happened in prior years, I would be in the same boat some of you find yourself in. Sucks. No other way to say it.

I am still at a loss for how the New Mexico system has come to be what it is, but reading this old court ruling gives some insight as to how things evolved in New Mexico and in many instances, were never changed.

NM residents are justified to want a change to this allocation on the species in question. Hard to believe the judge did not make an accommodation for this year.

 

[EODRay]

Since there is about a 75% chance that I will be a NM resident within three months of my getting home, I'm glad to see that NM residence will have higher odds of drawing now. That being said……..how could they possibly change it immediately knowing everyone applied under a completely different drawing paradigm? I think that if everyone did what Schmalts is considering, it would send a clear message. I also don't see how they could take any legal action (none that would win anyhow) against it.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Randy---The Judge can't make any kind of accomodation like you mentioned, as they only rule on the law itself. It is up to the state to then decide when to implement the change, so it's strictly the state of NM that is at fault if they immediately change it to the 6% rule during 2014 with no remedy presented to people that have already applied and have no recourse for withdrawal, etc. They are also risking a lawsuit IMHO because you're dealing with interstate commerce when they take money from NRs, especially by credit card, and then change the rules for what a person has paid for. I think it would be a slam dunk fraud case if a person or class action lawsuit were filed. If they are smart they will immediately reverse their decision and either not make the change until 2015 or refund every NR their money ASAP if they make the change this year.

 

[WapitiBob]

From what I have read,the dept has already said they will refund. It will take a day or two to iron out details though.