ND HB 1151

[wct12]

Yes, my crappy illustration was attempting to compare the two units. Apologies again, the only tool I had at the time. It’s more just a trend line to show the rate differences, not really a graph.

Short time period in 3a1 (don’t have the year of first detection, but it’s more recent than 3f2) jump to 6.9%, vs 12 year or whatever climb to 4.9%. Not sure how we are defining a “spike”, but that comparison gives me pause.

What’s different between those two areas? Well, unchecked CWD in SK comes to mind. No attempt to reduce risk factors, like baiting, in SK. Is it definitive? Of course not. But I think it’s interesting that the textbook case study for inferences made regarding baiting’s contribution to CWD increase (Saskatchewan) is located directly adjacent to the fastest-rising CWD prevalence area in ND.

The "Hotspot" in 3a1 (where the game and fish did their herd eradication) was around Williston which borders montana where baiting is restricted.

The jump from 0 or 2 to 6.9 occurred after a baiting restriction in mule deer.. So that would mean natural transference in a herd setting of mule deer caused a spike in North Dakota herds, not bait piles.. Whether it came from montana, Canada or is naturally occurring like some think some prion diseases might be.

 

[wct12]

Yes, my crappy illustration was attempting to compare the two units. Apologies again, the only tool I had at the time. It’s more just a trend line to show the rate differences, not really a graph.

Short time period in 3a1 (don’t have the year of first detection, but it’s more recent than 3f2) jump to 6.9%, vs 12 year or whatever climb to 4.9%. Not sure how we are defining a “spike”, but that comparison gives me pause.

What’s different between those two areas? Well, unchecked CWD in SK comes to mind. No attempt to reduce risk factors, like baiting, in SK. Is it definitive? Of course not. But I think it’s interesting that the textbook case study for inferences made regarding baiting’s contribution to CWD increase (Saskatchewan) is located directly adjacent to the fastest-rising CWD prevalence area in ND.

At least the white tail positive in 3a1 (deer found dead that tested positive) was from South of Williston.

 

[GST]

There is one thing I am curious about so a question to those who demand we ban all baiting for the good of the resource because of “ science” that suggests a cwd pandemic will kill all the deer ans anyone that doesn’t agree is selfish and putting the entire resource at risk denying the “ science”

How many boosters of the covid shot do you have, did you comply with all mask mandates and lock downs without question and do you believe what Dr Fauci told us all because he is an expert ?

Or is it actually the ethics?

 

[Hunting Wife]

There is one thing I am curious about so a question to those who demand we ban all baiting for the good of the resource because of “ science” that suggests a cwd pandemic will kill all the deer ans anyone that doesn’t agree is selfish and putting the entire resource at risk denying the “ science”

How many boosters of the covid shot do you have, did you comply with all mask mandates and lock downs without question and do you believe what Dr Fauci told us all because he is an expert ?

Or is it actually the ethics?

Got a booster because I have risk factors. Didn’t do masks for the most part because the data didn’t support what they were selling IMO.

I couldn’t care less about the ethics.

Happy?

 

[DFS]

Inserting my opinion from Montana just because the thread is so dang entertaining and we need to keep it going. I don’t necessarily agree with the science of cwd management. Seems like we are chasing our tails but banning baiting sounds like a pretty easy one to agree with. Find a silage pit or alfalfa field to corner those pesky deer.

 

[GST]

Got a booster because I have risk factors. Didn’t do masks for the most part because the data didn’t support what they were selling IMO.

I couldn’t care less about the ethics.

Happy?

So then you were willing to doubt the experts and data put out by those “professionals”

So why should we not have the ability to question the NDGF and their data ?

 

[GST]

Got a booster because I have risk factors. Didn’t do masks for the most part because the data didn’t support what they were selling IMO.

I couldn’t care less about the ethics.

Happy?

We fought lock downs that said we could not go to a gym and watch our daughter play basketball…. But we could go up town and sit in the packed bar and watch it on the big screen

Kind of like you can’t hunt over bait…. But you can take pictures and hunt over a food plot

We questioned the effectiveness of masks having cleaned bin bottoms with N 95 masks and blew dust boogers when we wwre done

But we were repeatedly lectured and attacked in social media for questioning the professionals and science

We believed there was an agenda behind the narrative and it is seeming like maybe that was accurate

So why is it so hard to believe that the “ science” behind cwd is an agenda based on ethics to ban baiting

 

[Hunting Wife]

So then you were willing to doubt the experts and data put out by those “professionals”

So why should we not have the ability to question the NDGF and their data ?

Not at all. Question away, intelligently. I looked at the data, looked at the recommendations, and contacted experts I trusted with no skin in the politics, and I made my choices.

Plus, you are not questioning NDGF. You are disregarding multiple fields worth of experts in myriad disciplines. There’s a difference.

 

[Hunting Wife]

We fought lock downs that said we could not go to a gym and watch our daughter play basketball…. But we could go up town and sit in the packed bar and watch it on the big screen

Kind of like you can’t hunt over bait…. But you can take pictures and hunt over a food plot

We questioned the effectiveness of masks having cleaned bin bottoms with N 95 masks and blew dust boogers when we wwre done

But we were repeatedly lectured and attacked in social media for questioning the professionals and science

We believed there was an agenda behind the narrative and it is seeming like maybe that was accurate

So why is it so hard to believe that the “ science” behind cwd is an agenda based on ethics to ban baiting

Whatever you want to tell yourself. Clearly agendas come in many forms. I think you just have an emotional attachment to baiting, and want to fight. But if you think you have made compelling arguments against the science, you are mistaken.

 

[8andcounting]

and contacted experts

Lol …. Who ???

 

[GST]

Not at all. Question away, intelligently. I looked at the data, looked at the recommendations, and contacted experts I trusted with no skin in the politics, and I made my choices.

Plus, you are not questioning NDGF. You are disregarding multiple fields worth of experts in myriad disciplines. There’s a difference.

Yes i am questioning the NDGF

There science on their own website shows food plots are a transference risk factor that is irrefutable yet instead of banning hunting over food plots … they find seeding them

They claim a 10 gal bait pile spreads cwd …. But dump out screenings or alfalfa bales in their short stop feeding programs

They posted on their website at one point cwd “ targets” mature bucks … yet prions are not gender or age specific i transference

Only 1 dead deer found in the wild in 12 years with cwd…. Yet the GF kill 52 deer all negative and throw the meat away and CWD is the killer we need to worry about

They develope a management plan that they want to maintain population by giving out 75.000 tags and then manage the deer herd to a level they have to hive out 140.000 tags multiple years

Over those years they gave out above 75,000 tags…. They generated an ADDITIONAL $12,600,000.00

And then after a massive die off one winter … the first case of cwd surfaced

So damn right I am questioning the NDGF

 

[brocksw]

Hunt talk

 

[GST]

Whatever you want to tell yourself. Clearly agendas come in many forms. I think you just have an emotional attachment to baiting, and want to fight. But if you think you have made compelling arguments against the science, you are mistaken.

We know the science says the cwd prion lives for extend times in the environment ( NDGF says forever) in the soil and on plant leaves and cobs of a corn plant to be transferred

But the NDGF FUND planting food plots … I would suggest it is the NDGF that is not making a compelling argument and is ignoring science

I am curious have you ever seen 600 deer at a silage pile and what the ground looks like in the spring and there is 2 inches of deer crap completely covering 7 acres of ground the deer nosed through for 5 months ???

Hunt talk
View attachment 265923

you never answer brock have you ever seen 600 deer at a silage pile 60 feet wide and 2 inches of a solid matt of deer crap over 7 acres of land ?

Im really curious just how much you actually know about how deer yard up in much of ND

Have you seen 750 deer wintering at an elevator that piled soybeans on the ground that fall ?

 

[8andcounting]

Hunt talk
View attachment 265923

I’d say that’s where you are . Lost trying to figure out a way out of the hole you’ve dug

 

[8andcounting]

Brock , bring your high tech compound and rangefinder over east next fall I’ll let you shoot a doe over my corn pile . I mean , we don’t want too many deer around might get cwd

 

[Hunting Wife]

Yes i am questioning the NDGF

There science on their own website shows food plots are a transference risk factor that is irrefutable yet instead of banning hunting over food plots … they find seeding them

They claim a 10 gal bait pile spreads cwd …. But dump out screenings or alfalfa bales in their short stop feeding programs

They posted on their website at one point cwd “ targets” mature bucks … yet prions are not gender or age specific i transference

Only 1 dead deer found in the wild in 12 years with cwd…. Yet the GF kill 52 deer all negative and throw the meat away and CWD is the killer we need to worry about

They develope a management plan that they want to maintain population by giving out 75.000 tags and then manage the deer herd to a level they have to hive out 140.000 tags multiple years

Over those years they gave out above 75,000 tags…. They generated an ADDITIONAL $12,600,000.00

And then after a massive die off one winter … the first case of cwd surfaced

So damn right I am questioning the NDGF

Because NDGF wrote the book on prion diseases, epidemiology, and CWD?

This literally makes no sense at all.

I am curious have you ever seen 600 deer at a silage pile and what the ground looks like in the spring and there is 2 inches of deer crap completely covering 7 acres of ground the deer nosed through for 5 months ???

I’ve seen ten thousand elk on a feedground. Looks like shit. I’m against that too.

I’m out. Have a good night.

 

[GST]

Because NDGF wrote the book on prion diseases, epidemiology, and CWD?

This literally makes no sense at all.


I’ve seen ten thousand elk on a feedground. Looks like shit. I’m against that too.

I’m out. Have a good night.

Because the NDGF controls by regulation how we hunt

So then you have not seen 600 deer atva silage pile?

Not many areas in ND that 10,000 elk yard up

This is a ND legislative bill

 

[GST]

Hunt talk
View attachment 265923

Brock you never answer what impact doubling the population of the deer herd gor several years above what the GF own management plan says was healthy might have

 

[brocksw]

I am curious have you ever seen 600 deer at a silage pile and what the ground looks like in the spring and there is 2 inches of deer crap completely covering 7 acres of ground the deer nosed through for 5 months ???

Well CWD isn't far from your neck of the woods. If you care about keeping it off your place, then I'd make a little effort in fencing off your feed yard or changing your set up. Some effort by you and other ranchers who have the same issues could go a long way. Could buy yourself a decade or more before prevelence gets high.

Maybe a solution will be found during that time. I hope it's a vaccine that comes in the form of bait, super easy to get to deer (trust me, very effective) and you guys will finally quit whining. 2 birds with one stone. Wouldn't that be great?

As Ive stated before I would be happy to help ranchers/farmers work on solutions to those type of problems with the game and fish. Ive stated before those scenarios will spread disease too.

I advocate for a baiting AND feeding bans AND tripling efforts in the barrier/fencing program. (GASP - clutch your pearls!)

Anything we can do to give us as many years as we can before prevelence gets high. Prevalence will get high no matter what, but will we be CO/WY (35 to 45 years) or Saskatchewan (20 years)?

I believe the Game and Fish is working with 147 landowners this winter so far on trying to solve these or similar problems.
Good on those landowners for utilizing the tools available to them and the department for making tools available to them to solve problems.

 

[brocksw]

I’d say that’s where you are . Lost trying to figure out a way out of the hole you’ve dug

If you're gonna ask me out, just do it already. You don't gotta follow me around and be a tease...