ND HB 1151

[GST]

Brock you extended the invitation to sit down in person on messenger to engage in conversation and even help find some path forward

I was merely trying to determine if open discussion was what you actually sought …. Why you stopped those discussions in the open forum of the Back Country FB page where everyone could see and be a part of them ?

Thanks for posting that graph and if you would allow I can point out a couple spots that “ hurt” ALL ND sportsmen and women

In the peak of your graph that shows several years of record high tag numbers allotted …. What was the management plan number of allotted tags the NDG&F said would give the sportsmen a HEALTHY and SUSTAINABLE deer herd in ND ?

To save you the trouble of searching it was 75,000 tags allotted

So the question I would pose you are as follows

Given the average life cycle of a deer in ND is roughly 3 years …. What happens when a population is allowed to DOUBLE and remain there for a time frame longer than one “generation” of that deer herd ?

Now what your graph does not show is the history of what was viewed by many as “ habitat” during that same decade of RECORD high deer numbers

CRP made great fawning habitat ….Thermal cover during the winter months …. Not so much as in ND the winters tend to blow in CRP full of snow so the deer leave and travel miles to areas with that type of thermal cover and food sources …. In ND that translates to ranch yards

There were millions of acres of CRP in ND leading up to those RECORD deer populations….but what fid those winter habitat thermal cover area acres do? Grow accordingly to match increase fawning habitat ? No they stayed constant

So what happens when you have twice as many fawns born than what your winter habitat will hold ?

Perhaps you didn’t haul out many dead deer from the Badlands where you hunt the spring of O8 but in our ranch yard … even after bringing in hunters that took over 100 deer out of the herd of 650 that yarded up at our ranch … we still hauled out over 130 dead deer that next spring

Brock have you ever seen 650 deer feeding at a silage pile or eating hay mixed among 300 cows ?

Brock have you ever drug 130 dead deer out of your yard and placed them in a pile ?

If you have not ever seen or done those things perhaps you don’t understand why questions would be asked of the agency tasked with managing the health and sustainability of the states deer herd for the public good

If you could Brock could you share an easy to read graph of the fluctuations in hunter success percentages fro that period from 2000 to now … it is an interesting overlay of the allotted tag numbers

Thanks I am interested to hear your answers to each of those questions

 

[NDGuy]

have you ever drug 130 dead deer out of your yard and placed them in a pile ?

Do you let hunters access your acreage?

 

[GST]

Schism it is actually the lt governor that handles the GF issues the Governor just appoints and signs off on it with the final say and we had a bit of an “ in” there as our former lt governor owns land up here and good friend rents and farms it

So we had direct conversations with lt gov Sanford who was good to work with and receptive to concerns

But if you are from ND and are familiar with politics … you know he and our governor Burghum did not see eye to eye which played a big role in lt Governor Sanfords stepping down

Burghum likes control and has demonstrated that by spending millions of his own dollars to elect people in our legislature He is not really accessible nor receptive on issues that question his appointees

If you have the connections that would get a person 10 minutes of Burghums time we would like that opportunity to speak with him

I would also like to once again point out through the initiated measure process the people themselves purposely placed in our state constitution that absolute ability to go through our legislature to asdist in managing the wildlife resources for the public good 77% of the people voting agreed

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Brock you extended the invitation to sit down in person on messenger to engage in conversation and even help find some path forward

I was merely trying to determine if open discussion was what you actually sought …. Why you stopped those discussions in the open forum of the Back Country FB page where everyone could see and be a part of them ?

Thanks for posting that graph and if you would allow I can point out a couple spots that “ hurt” ALL ND sportsmen and women

In the peak of your graph that shows several years of record high tag numbers allotted …. What was the management plan number of allotted tags the NDG&F said would give the sportsmen a HEALTHY and SUSTAINABLE deer herd in ND ?

To save you the trouble of searching it was 75,000 tags allotted

So the question I would pose you are as follows

Given the average life cycle of a deer in ND is roughly 3 years …. What happens when a population is allowed to DOUBLE and remain there for a time frame longer than one “generation” of that deer herd ?

Now what your graph does not show is the history of what was viewed by many as “ habitat” during that same decade of RECORD high deer numbers

CRP made great fawning habitat ….Thermal cover during the winter months …. Not so much as in ND the winters tend to blow in CRP full of snow so the deer leave and travel miles to areas with that type of thermal cover and food sources …. In ND that translates to ranch yards

There were millions of acres of CRP in ND leading up to those RECORD deer populations….but what fid those winter habitat thermal cover area acres do? Grow accordingly to match increase fawning habitat ? No they stayed constant

So what happens when you have twice as many fawns born than what your winter habitat will hold ?

Perhaps you didn’t haul out many dead deer from the Badlands where you hunt the spring of O8 but in our ranch yard … even after bringing in hunters that took over 100 deer out of the herd of 650 that yarded up at our ranch … we still hauled out over 130 dead deer that next spring

Brock have you ever seen 650 deer feeding at a silage pile or eating hay mixed among 300 cows ?

Brock have you ever drug 130 dead deer out of your yard and placed them in a pile ?

If you have not ever seen or done those things perhaps you don’t understand why questions would be asked of the agency tasked with managing the health and sustainability of the states deer herd for the public good

If you could Brock could you share an easy to read graph of the fluctuations in hunter success percentages fro that period from 2000 to now … it is an interesting overlay of the allotted tag numbers

Thanks I am interested to hear your answers to each of those questions

GST, nice to see you here. I remember your posts back in the Nodakoutdoors forum days mid 2000's.

I no longer live in ND, can you dumb down some of your criticisms of the NDGF for me and how it relates to this bill? Is it that the legislature involvement in managing methods of take makes sense because NDGF has not allowed for the right number of deer to be killed in the past?

Curious on your '08 example (If memory serves a few friends of mine might have shot deer at your place around that time[Edit: i confused you with G/O from the old NDO days]) - is your criticism that NDGF let the population get too big and didn't issue enough tags? How would you rate the number of tags currently being issued?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Do you let hunters access your acreage?

If I recall correctly, 3 or more of my friends hunted his place in the time period he is referencing unpaid. [Edit: I was mistaken, i confused him with someone else]

 

[brocksw]

Brock you extended the invitation to sit down in person on messenger to engage in conversation and even help find some path forward

I was merely trying to determine if open discussion was what you actually sought …. Why you stopped those discussions in the open forum of the Back Country FB page where everyone could see and be a part of them ?

Thanks for posting that graph and if you would allow I can point out a couple spots that “ hurt” ALL ND sportsmen and women

In the peak of your graph that shows several years of record high tag numbers allotted …. What was the management plan number of allotted tags the NDG&F said would give the sportsmen a HEALTHY and SUSTAINABLE deer herd in ND ?

To save you the trouble of searching it was 75,000 tags allotted

So the question I would pose you are as follows

Given the average life cycle of a deer in ND is roughly 3 years …. What happens when a population is allowed to DOUBLE and remain there for a time frame longer than one “generation” of that deer herd ?

Now what your graph does not show is the history of what was viewed by many as “ habitat” during that same decade of RECORD high deer numbers

CRP made great fawning habitat ….Thermal cover during the winter months …. Not so much as in ND the winters tend to blow in CRP full of snow so the deer leave and travel miles to areas with that type of thermal cover and food sources …. In ND that translates to ranch yards

There were millions of acres of CRP in ND leading up to those RECORD deer populations….but what fid those winter habitat thermal cover area acres do? Grow accordingly to match increase fawning habitat ? No they stayed constant

So what happens when you have twice as many fawns born than what your winter habitat will hold ?

Perhaps you didn’t haul out many dead deer from the Badlands where you hunt the spring of O8 but in our ranch yard … even after bringing in hunters that took over 100 deer out of the herd of 650 that yarded up at our ranch … we still hauled out over 130 dead deer that next spring

Brock have you ever seen 650 deer feeding at a silage pile or eating hay mixed among 300 cows ?

Brock have you ever drug 130 dead deer out of your yard and placed them in a pile ?

If you have not ever seen or done those things perhaps you don’t understand why questions would be asked of the agency tasked with managing the health and sustainability of the states deer herd for the public good

If you could Brock could you share an easy to read graph of the fluctuations in hunter success percentages fro that period from 2000 to now … it is an interesting overlay of the allotted tag numbers

Thanks I am interested to hear your answers to each of those questions

Correct, and that conversation thread still sits there for all to see. But afterwards it became quite obvious to me and others that there was no value in sitting down with you. Just like Wyatt, you disregard all facts/data/scientific analysis unless it supports baiting and then continue to repeat the same misinformation that has already been disproven.

It's the same circular argument again and again, for the last 2.5 months.

You repeat things that have been proven to be untrue even when someone provides data and factual explanations. You repeatedly show that you fail to grasp the concepts of CWD management and the purpose of the management changes. You repeatedly show that you are willing to encourage the spread of CWD by doing absolutely nothing and you do not care what the future impacts may be....all so you can bait.

You were posting on every single one of our posts (how you have the time for that I have no clue), going in circles tying in completely unrelated subjects and just blowing up the comment section. I've seen you do that on multiple other FB posts made by anyone who opposes 1151.

Harvest success is shown on the graph I provided. If you want an "easy to read" graph, I'm not sure how it gets much easier than that.

Tell me more how baiting deer doesn't spread disease.

 

[NDGuy]

Burghum likes control and has demonstrated that by spending millions of his own dollars to elect people in our legislature He is not really accessible nor receptive on issues that question his appointees

Ok finally something we all can agree on LOL

 

[GST]

Do you let hunters access your acreage?

Yes we do

For years we posted only about half … now because of issues we have had with gates left open and cattle getting out and garbage left and others frustrating things we require permission do we know who is out there

If you have followed wyatts and my posts you know that one winter we posted on Nodak Angler and other social media sites for bowhunters looking to fill tags with does to come hunt out of our heated elevated stands the month of Dec when we had 3 feet of snow and the weather was -20

Because of the ability to attract deer to that stand away from our cattle we had over 100 deer taken by hunters during that rifle and archery season

It was a win for both parties as we had fewer deer in our hay yard and people that likely would not have filled their tags were able to

My uncle and I are/were instructors at our small rural churches youth archery program. It is a popular program drawing 40-50 kids each winter for almost 20 years many of those kids got their start bowhunting on ours and my uncles lands

Over the years the numbers of people that have taken game ( deer/birds) varies but I don’t remember a year where that opportunity has not been shared without a dime ever being charged (before that is asked)

 

[BuzzH]

Its for the kids, always the kids...what a joke.

My nephews have killed a pile of game for their ages and never over a pile of corn.

What a lame excuse for baiting.

 

[GST]

Correct, and that conversation thread still sits there for all to see. But afterwards it became quite obvious to me and others that there was no value in sitting down with you. Just like Wyatt, you disregard all facts/data/scientific analysis unless it supports baiting and then continue to repeat the same misinformation that has already been disproven.

It's the same circular argument again and again, for the last 2.5 months.

You repeat things that have been proven to be untrue even when someone provides data and factual explanations. You repeatedly show that you fail to grasp the concepts of CWD management and the purpose of the management changes. You repeatedly show that you are willing to encourage the spread of CWD by doing absolutely nothing and you do not care what the future impacts may be....all so you can bait.

You were posting on every single one of our posts (how you have the time for that I have no clue), going in circles tying in completely unrelated subjects and just blowing up the comment section. I've seen you do that on multiple other FB posts made by anyone who opposes 1151.

Harvest success is shown on the graph I provided. If you want an "easy to read" graph, I'm not sure how it gets much easier than that.

Tell me more how baiting deer doesn't spread disease.

Brock if you wish to travel the path of calling someone a liar as you have in this post please copy and paste a link to where that was done

Credibility is important to some people so please if you can show where I am posting factually incorrect claims I will certainly apologize and correct them

I hope you can engage in this discussion without making it personal that kind of debate does little to move anything forward

 

[GST]

Its for the kids, always the kids...what a joke.

My nephews have killed a pile of game for their ages and never over a pile of corn.

What a lame excuse for baiting.

I am glad your nephew has that opportunity … many do not nor do they have the time with busy lives with the activities many are a part of in school

It is not just “ for the kids” I don’t hunt as much as I used to because I do get more out of helping my sons and daughter and other kids get their deer … but when I find time for myself I did when we could hunt over a small bait pile

Im dure there are those that believe that does not make me a hunter or somehow less of a hunter and that is fine because I do not hunt for anyone elses approval nor do I expect them to meet mine

To me hunting is a deeply personal and individual thing … no one can.. nor should be the arbiter of what someone else takes from it

But thats just my opinion

I try to get kids started into an activity I love and hope they continue in it however THEIR path might take them

 

[BuzzH]

I am glad your nephew has that opportunity … many do not nor do they have the time with busy lives with the activities many are a part of in school

It is not just “ for the kids” I don’t hunt as much as I used to because I do get more out of helping my sons and daughter and other kids get their deer … but when I find time for myself I did when we could hunt over a small bait pile

Im dure there are those that believe that does not make me a hunter or somehow less of a hunter and that is fine because I do not hunt for anyone elses approval nor do I expect them to meet mine

To me hunting is a deeply personal and individual thing … no one can.. nor should be the arbiter of what someone else takes from it

But thats just my opinion

I try to get kids started into an activity I love and hope they continue in it however THEIR path might take them

What a joke, now its about kids being "too busy" to hunt for the need for bait...come on. Excuse after excuse which tells me that the practice is just slightly more than a little sketchy. When you have to drag kids, kids schedules into it that's just wrong. CWD aside, that you ignore, you need new material.

My oldest nephew runs cross country, does band, carries a 3.8 GPA, works most weekends and still has time to hunt and doesn't need a bait pile to pull that off.

My youngest nephew has a black belt in taekwondo, does band, is now teaching taekwondo to the younger kids, and carries a 4.0 GPA. He also still has time to hunt, he doesn't need a bait pile either.

You're also wrong, HUNTERS absolutely are the "arbiter" of rules and regulations regarding hunting they impose on themselves and others for herd health, etc.

It makes sense to ban deer baiting in ND for a lot more reasons than it does to allow it.

 

[wct12]

Perhaps you're not familiar with Americas wildlife over the last century plus. Perhaps you aren't aware of the stories Roosevelt told about his time in North Dakota, the extirpation across much of the wildlife across the American west. Game and Fish agencies were putting moratoriums on certain critters up to a decade to recover populations.

The North Dakota deer harvest for 1941 was less than 3000 deer and hunters claimed it was the best deer season they've ever had. They had a total deer population for the state of less than 10k deer. We had 225 pronghorn in 1925, total, statewide. Sheep were locally extinct. Grizzly bears, locally extinct. Elk locally extinct. Waterfowl hammered.

This is all to say that restrictions on hunters is one of, if not the most effective way to be successful in wildlife management. Because "we the people", as you like to say when thinking the pro-baiting crowds speaks for everyone in the state, have proven that we cannot manage our wildlife ourselves. Controlling tag numbers, regulating methods of take, and season dates are just the first things that come to mind.

In this case, they aren't restricting the public. They're just restricting the practice baiting. And that concept has hurt a lot of feels in the baiting community.

"The mission of the North Dakota Game and Fish Department is to protect, conserve and enhance fish and wildlife populations and their habitat for sustained public consumptive and nonconsumptive use."

You are mistaking a lack of "accountability" for not getting your way. Many in the state wanted statewide baiting bans back in 2009. Was the GF not accountable to them? Many people currently want statewide, year round baiting AND feeding bans. Is the GF not accountable to them? Just because someone doesn't get their way, doesn't mean the GF isn't accountable to their mandated duties (in statute and the constituion) or their trustees (All hunters and members of the public, not just those that use bait or those that don't take CWD seriously). You and your daddy talk like the baiting community is the only one the GF is accountable too.

View attachment 265820

I've only heard rumors about this. But what I heard is that you guys were being complete assholes, hurling accusations at the game and fish and shouting at them. Perhaps I should call the Game and Fish folks and get their side of the story?

Maybe the Governor is exercising common sense.

Dr. Bahnson refutes that claim.


No you're not. You have admitted your disdain for the GF on this forum already. You simply think that you know better and the game and fish is wrong about everything. THat's it, just call a spade a spade.

The bill propoents arguments have been an amoeba of paradoxical bullshit.
1. CWD isn't real because were not seeing dead deer
2. CWD is not a threat because James Kroll said so
3. Humic acid is a cure
4. Genetics is the cure
5. Copper supplements is the cure
6. The GF is engaged in a conspiracy to kill all the deer.
7. The GF is allowing feeding but not hunting (which is a lie).
8. "There is no science"
9. "Your science is wrong"
10. Feeding in a 100 acre field is the same as a bait pile
11. The science is "junk" unless its been performed by a deer farmer or a privately funded by the deer farming industry
12. The science is "junk", but here's 10 scientific studies showing that *insert miracle cure here* can kill prions in a petri-dish. Even when the scientists who performed the study say it has no utility in live deer or on the landscape.
13. Using handicapped people, children, and the elderly as the excuse for grown ass men to get their way.
14. The deer will starve if we don't feed them.

That's a brief summary of all the arguments you folks have made, should I go on? CWD for you guys has been both not real and no threat to deer, and you've found not just 1, but multiple "cures" for a not real disease. The science is both wrong and doesn't exist, but also here's a cure based on a complete lack of understanding of "the science".

Although "many" may have wanted a ban in 07 and 09, the majority didn't and the legislature listened.. That's how our political system works.. Someone writing regulations into a proclamation after failing through the legislature seems like they are unaccountable to a majority (remember, that's why the vote came out how it did) of sportsmen in North Dakota..

Again.. I say less frequent but more thorough (your snippet proves that claim) but they are thinking they will be able to literally double their samples? That seems a tall task.

The meetings will include a formal presentation on history, current status and the future of CWD in North Dakota, after which department staff will be available to visit individually with people who have questions and/or comments.

Meetings set on chronic wasting disease

North Dakota Game and Fish Department officials will host three public meetings this month to discuss chronic wasting disease in North Dakota. A meeting will be held in Minot on Aug. 29 at 7 p.m. in the Grand Hotel. Other meetings are scheduled for Aug. 22 in Fargo and Aug. 24 in Dickinson...

www.minotdailynews.com

-Public Forum without the ability to ask questions in said public forum..

Bahnson refutes this claim but said it in front of many in the group that was asking questions of him at the meeting in Minot.. That's why these forums should be public discussion and livestreamed.

Myself and many others have a disdain for lots of state agencies, not just the game and fish but that is beside the point.. they have shown they have 0 interest in having any form of input from the farmers and ranchers that deal with, see the herds every day and the population swings that come with them, and being willing to work with them.

I invite you to show me where I have shared anything that falls under the number of bullet points you have stated on the bottom of your post.. have I questioned the science the game and fish puts out, absolutely.. do I think looking into other possibilities that could possible help would be a good idea? Absolutely but I've never come out and said its the cure all, or shared any facts on it.. I invite you to find me any 100 acre food plots in the state.. Do I think bait piles give youth, elderly, and the handicapped a better opportunity to harvest an animal humanely? Absolutely.. this is evident by the number of youth hunters we have allowed to hunt and harvest animals at our place.

I have said CWD is a real disease, but I have also said that I have a lot of doubts/questions about the severity of it, especially here in state currently, and some of those doubts/questions have a lot to with the numbers that have been released from 3f2, specifically the last 3 years worth of results.

 

[Schism]

Schism it is actually the lt governor that handles the GF issues the Governor just appoints and signs off on it with the final say and we had a bit of an “ in” there as our former lt governor owns land up here and good friend rents and farms it

So we had direct conversations with lt gov Sanford who was good to work with and receptive to concerns

But if you are from ND and are familiar with politics … you know he and our governor Burghum did not see eye to eye which played a big role in lt Governor Sanfords stepping down

Burghum likes control and has demonstrated that by spending millions of his own dollars to elect people in our legislature He is not really accessible nor receptive on issues that question his appointees

If you have the connections that would get a person 10 minutes of Burghums time we would like that opportunity to speak with him

I would also like to once again point out through the initiated measure process the people themselves purposely placed in our state constitution that absolute ability to go through our legislature to asdist in managing the wildlife resources for the public good 77% of the people voting agreed

*Burgum.

 

[GST]

Brock your graph does not show specific yearly hunter success rates by percentage yhat show the dramatic swings that existed in those years tome frames

CWD is spread by interactions of deer and by prions being deposited by an infected deer and taken up by others

You seem to wish to focus on science… okay

The NDGF at one point used the word “targeted” on their web site in claiming CWD impacts mature bucks

CWD is neither gender or age specific so how can it target those big mature bucks everyone wants to shoot as the NDGF claimed on their website at one point ?

On that same NDG&F website the science is shared that CWD prions can live in the environment forever ( no one really knows that “forever” is accurate but we do know they remain transmissible for extended periods of time in the environment on things like corn cobs or turnip plant leaves

The issue that the GF states with baiting is that it “ attracts, holds and congregates deer to a small area

That is the very reason people plant dood plots most times on the same spot year after year after year and we know from the GF science on their website that the CWD prion remains viable in that soil… the GF says forever

So if it the NDGF regulations are all about reducing CWD transmission how ever they can even if it is a small percentage as they have stated … why then are they allowing hunting over a food plot ????

And why in the heck are they funding paying for them ???

You don’t get to pick and choose what “science” to use or your credibility comes to to question when you hold up one practice and ignore another

I promise you a good food plot “ attracts, holds and concentrates” deer for a longer time frame and in winter months greater numbers than 5 gallons of peas do

So lets have an honest discussion about the “ science” across the board or drop it and admit it is about ethics

 

[GST]

GST, nice to see you here. I remember your posts back in the Nodakoutdoors forum days mid 2000's.

I no longer live in ND, can you dumb down some of your criticisms of the NDGF for me and how it relates to this bill? Is it that the legislature involvement in managing methods of take makes sense because NDGF has not allowed for the right number of deer to be killed in the past?

Curious on your '08 example (If memory serves a few friends of mine might have shot deer at your place around that time) - is your criticism that NDGF let the population get too big and didn't issue enough tags? How would you rate the number of tags currently being issued?

Our criticism rises on this singular issue of deer management from my direct experiences of talking with G&F officials over a period of time that myself and hundreds of ranchers across the state were seeing the deer population explode and watching as our insight was repeatedly dismissed

On our ranch like most others across the state ( the numbers may vary but the increases did not) in the start of the 2000s we had 150 deer wintering in our hay yard on average and those numbers had remained consistent for several years

At that time CRP was growing in acres and so was the deer herd

2002 saw 250 deer in our ranch yard

2004…. 350
2005 ….450
2006….550
2007….650

We don’t mind 300 deer ( we have 400 this winter)

Their only response… they would provide materials for a deer proof hay yard

I tried to relay with pictures of 600 deer intermingled among 300 cows that the hay yards were a bandaid on a broken arm as eventually the hay has to come out to feed cows and what we saw happen every single day was what they should be considering if disease issues were a risk

The year your friends came in and helped us out by taking does out of that herd of 600 deer… i actually had a biologist from the NDGF at our place standing 70 yards from 550 deer (literally) packed intonthe front of a silage pile 60 foot wide look me in the eye and tell me the bit of corn we dumped out by a stand so your friends could help refuce those numbers was what would spread CWD

Weveere dtanding on a 2 inch deep carpet of deer crap and urine that deer were nosing through to get corn or alfalfa from a ground hay pile 100 deer were standing on top of

He was actually serious

The G&F have a tough job….they do a good job on most things…. This one they dropped the ball on bad and mother nature ultimately did their job for them

That next spring there was thousands of dead deer from starvation even in ranch yards where they had food sources… there was just too many

The next year the first case of cwd showed up

The next couple years success rates dropped 20% because there weren’t deer to meet the numbers of tags they were giving out and at one point they went from giving out TWICE the number of tags their management plan called for to almost HALF that figure

Im not a biologist But I can count

When I see TWICE as many deer yarding up in our ranch yard…. I know the population is growing …. When it TRIPLES im guessing it is a problem that should have been dealt with sooner

Maybe I should have went to 8 years of college to have the folks at the NDG&F validate that

Remember …. There were no mt lions in ND… the director of yhe NDG&F stood in front of the board on the NDStockmans Association and told us that over losses those ranchers saw

The next summer a couple of mt bikers got a scare on the Ma dey hey trail and we were shooting lions that fall and have been since

Deer numbers are down from EHD down south… we didn’t have it up north so we will see how the GF manages numbers

We used baiting as a tool to reduce the deer numbers yarding up in our ranch yard by 20% Pulling deer away from our cattle to a stand people could come hunt in that tool was taken away

 

[BuzzH]

Brock your graph does not show specific yearly hunter success rates by percentage yhat show the dramatic swings that existed in those years tome frames

CWD is spread by interactions of deer and by prions being deposited by an infected deer and taken up by others

You seem to wish to focus on science… okay

The NDGF at one point used the word “targeted” on their web site in claiming CWD impacts mature bucks

CWD is neither gender or age specific so how can it target those big mature bucks everyone wants to shoot as the NDGF claimed on their website at one point ?

On that same NDG&F website the science is shared that CWD prions can live in the environment forever ( no one really knows that “forever” is accurate but we do know they remain transmissible for extended periods of time in the environment on things like corn cobs or turnip plant leaves

The issue that the GF states with baiting is that it “ attracts, holds and congregates deer to a small area

That is the very reason people plant dood plots most times on the same spot year after year after year and we know from the GF science on their website that the CWD prion remains viable in that soil… the GF says forever

So if it the NDGF regulations are all about reducing CWD transmission how ever they can even if it is a small percentage as they have stated … why then are they allowing hunting over a food plot ????

And why in the heck are they funding paying for them ???

You don’t get to pick and choose what “science” to use or your credibility comes to to question when you hold up one practice and ignore another

I promise you a good food plot “ attracts, holds and concentrates” deer for a longer time frame and in winter months greater numbers than 5 gallons of peas do

So lets have an honest discussion about the “ science” across the board or drop it and admit it is about ethics

Fine, ban both bait piles and food plots.

It makes sense to help control CWD to pluck the low hanging fruit first, by doing things like those that keep deer from congregating over artificial food sources. By doing that, you may be able to delay, or perhaps even avoid, some of the other draconian options being talked about.

But, your agenda is clear, its not about the deer, its about you. YOU want to bait NO MATTER what the science says or how bad an outcome baiting would cause.

Its stunning that some will absolutely not give up a single thing to potentially avoid a real problem later.

Selfish...110% and what I've come to expect, and that's unfortunate.

 

[8andcounting]

The bottom line is this is a ND issue and NDans should be deciding it …. Not national orgs like Backcountry Hunters and Anglers ran by a guy that helped get Obama elected and over 75% of the people involved in this issue and their representatives speaking out are supporting this bill

This exactly!

 

[8andcounting]

For those that think the NDGF can do no wrong …

For several years I asked for a deer herd management plan from the G&F at advisory meetings and was finally told they did not have one…nor could they provide deer count numbers from our unit or most others in the state

They next year they did have a written plan and the management goal for population was a herd 75,000 tags could control and maintain ( it is now 65,000 despite several million acres less of CRP)

Not long after this plan was adopted the NDGF were told at these advisory meetings they had a population explosion happening and yet they dismissed those ranchers seeing it happen first hand (6-700 deer in hay yards) all over our state

Within about 3 years the NDGF were giving out 145,000 tags … nearly TWICE the number of tags their management plan called for to maintain a healthy viable herd

This went on for 4-5 years until mother nature killed off literally thousands of deer across the state during that winter ….. of 07-08

The very next year 2009….. the first case of CWD was found in ND

The NDGF is in charge of managing population… no one else has that authority in ND

How does Ma nature deal with over population??? Starvation and disease

The NDGF allowed the states deer herd to grow beyond TWICE what their own management plan said was healthy for a number of years and the result…. Massive die offs from starvation in the winter….and CWD being found for the first time a year later … who answers for that?

Couldn’t have said it any better . Totally agree

 

[8andcounting]

Fine, ban both bait piles and food plots.

It makes sense to help control CWD to pluck the low hanging fruit first, by doing things like those that keep deer from congregating over artificial food sources. By doing that, you may be able to delay, or perhaps even avoid, some of the other draconian options being talked about.

But, your agenda is clear, its not about the deer, its about you. YOU want to bait NO MATTER what the science says or how bad an outcome baiting would cause.

Its stunning that some will absolutely not give up a single thing to potentially avoid a real problem later.

Selfish...110% and what I've come to expect, and that's unfortunate.

Bingo . Nail on the head