I'm also opposed. Myself and most other kids I knew were out hunting by ourselves at times as soon as we were old enough to drive. 15-17 year olds can hunt with everyone else in the general season and our 5 week season is plenty long for them to get a deer.
MT Proposed 4 day youth deer hunt
- Thread starter RobG
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300stw
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as a dad taking a few kids thru the youth season the last few years, it is nice to not have to compete with every wound up, hitech, long range shooter, drive every coulee full of brush guy in the world,,,, if that meant I had to give up my buck tag so a kid could hunt early and see what hunting is about, id doit in a minute
having had my kids in elk and deer camp since they were a year old, they know a lot about hunting, but the day its there turn to be packing the rifle and making decisions, there a different kid,
do we need 4 days, probably not,
my kids have taken some solid 160-170 class deer on these hunts, deer we scouted and if they didn't harvest them, I would of been after them,, I here guys complain every year about the kids harvesting good bucks before their chance,,,,,,
any way I am all for giving kids a little extra before all the serious people are around, the youth turkey season would be great, just like the youth waterfowl and pheasant season, I take kids every year that are not my kids and have a great time, so do the kids,,,,
youth season vs general season opener around ne Montana are 2 completely different events,,,
having had my kids in elk and deer camp since they were a year old, they know a lot about hunting, but the day its there turn to be packing the rifle and making decisions, there a different kid,
do we need 4 days, probably not,
my kids have taken some solid 160-170 class deer on these hunts, deer we scouted and if they didn't harvest them, I would of been after them,, I here guys complain every year about the kids harvesting good bucks before their chance,,,,,,
any way I am all for giving kids a little extra before all the serious people are around, the youth turkey season would be great, just like the youth waterfowl and pheasant season, I take kids every year that are not my kids and have a great time, so do the kids,,,,
youth season vs general season opener around ne Montana are 2 completely different events,,,
Carnage2011
Well-known member
My thoughts exactly.
It's not, but to look only at the proposals and not take a longer view is short-sighted, IMO.
Longer view- I would like to see more game on public lands in Montana. We can't keep killing more animals each year in the mean time, hoping for change down the road.
I’m all for getting youngsters involved in the outdoors as early as possible, I did it with my own kids without a separate youth hunt, and so can each and every other parent if they make it a priority. There are plenty of areas and times to plan a quality hunt with your kids without a designated youth season. 2 days now, then 4 days then 5, 6 or 7 days ? The same reason will always be given, we need more youth in the sport. I agree, I just think there are better ways to accomplish that.
Lawnboy
Well-known member
I'm opposed to extending it to 4 days as well and I also have 2 kids still at home. The other issue I saw was the vagueness of the explanation in the youth hunt section regarding where you can hunt. My son drew a limited entry mule deer tag and we took advantage of getting in there sooner on the youth hunt. To my surprise we encountered multiple vehicles hunting those two days in that area. We talked to one father son duo who said it doesn't specifically say you can't hunt certain areas during the youth hunt.
This is the section he referred to: "– During these two days, youth hunters with a general deer or deer B license may take those deer species and sex otherwise available on their general or deer B license the first day of the general firearm season in the specific hunting district the youth is hunting."
He says see it says "they can take a deer in the specific district the youth is hunting. We are hunting here"
I wonder how much of this happened in other draw units or if it just was an isolated incident. I would like to see wording in bold stating YOUTH MAY NOT HUNT SPECIAL PERMIT AREAS DURING THE YOUTH HUNT UNLESS THEY HAVE DRAWN THE PERMIT FOR THAT AREA.
This is the section he referred to: "– During these two days, youth hunters with a general deer or deer B license may take those deer species and sex otherwise available on their general or deer B license the first day of the general firearm season in the specific hunting district the youth is hunting."
He says see it says "they can take a deer in the specific district the youth is hunting. We are hunting here"
I wonder how much of this happened in other draw units or if it just was an isolated incident. I would like to see wording in bold stating YOUTH MAY NOT HUNT SPECIAL PERMIT AREAS DURING THE YOUTH HUNT UNLESS THEY HAVE DRAWN THE PERMIT FOR THAT AREA.
Yes I agree.
HSi-ESi
Well-known member
I can see where it is nice to get kids out during the MEA days. Most years, the MEA days fall right before the general season - which is detailed out in the proposal that in those years the youth hunt would remain at 2 days. It is only in years where the MEA days do not fall directly preceding the general season - and that year would have a 4 day youth season.
At first glance, my thought is that this proposal is splitting hairs. I don't know how many folks are taking days off of work to take advantage of the MEA days. I can see where it would could increase youth involvement, especially for some kids that don't have much for opportunity (ie not a "hunting family").
My kids are young (8 and 5) and when they hit hunting age (actively carrying and being the hunter, not just tagging along with me) - I plan on them being the primary hunter for the entire season. I really don't care if I fill a tag once they start hunting. So from that perspective, the youth season is not that important to me.
I would rather shorten general rifle - give the kids the first 2-4 days - then have folks running with rifles during archery. Or shorten archery for that matter. It seems like we are trying to please everyone and creating some safety issues.
But then again, it's OK to have 15 days of rifle hunting elk in August. I don't feel like FWP has a consistent direction or message other than pound the resource.
At first glance, my thought is that this proposal is splitting hairs. I don't know how many folks are taking days off of work to take advantage of the MEA days. I can see where it would could increase youth involvement, especially for some kids that don't have much for opportunity (ie not a "hunting family").
My kids are young (8 and 5) and when they hit hunting age (actively carrying and being the hunter, not just tagging along with me) - I plan on them being the primary hunter for the entire season. I really don't care if I fill a tag once they start hunting. So from that perspective, the youth season is not that important to me.
I would rather shorten general rifle - give the kids the first 2-4 days - then have folks running with rifles during archery. Or shorten archery for that matter. It seems like we are trying to please everyone and creating some safety issues.
But then again, it's OK to have 15 days of rifle hunting elk in August. I don't feel like FWP has a consistent direction or message other than pound the resource.
RobG
Well-known member
Lawnboy - That's pretty crazy that people would think they could hunt special permit areas without a permit. That needs to be clarified.
Also bear in mind that this extends the maximum age from 15 to 17.
Also bear in mind that this extends the maximum age from 15 to 17.
You make a very good point and one I agree with, like you, as soon as my kids could carry a rifle I was hunting for them not me, my daughters don’t hunt anymore but my son does and my entire hunting season beginning to end, was his, I never even carried a rifle for a lot of his teenage years unless he shot something and there was still some season remaining for me to hunt. I’ve never had a problem passing the torch so to speak, seemed just the natural thing to do at least for me. I’m not going to freak out about youth seasons unless they get to generous in their time frame and age limits or lack there of. I oppose a 4 day youth season.
Big Sky
Well-known member
I've raised six kids. Any of them that had a desire to hunt big game did so successfully during the regular season. Half my kids could have hunted during the special youth hunt, but we never did. It wasn't necessary. I'm really not sure why anyone feels it is necessary.
Gerald Martin
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I'm opposed to lengthening it from 2 days to 4. I like the fact that youth have a weekend to hunt deer before general season but 4 days is too much. I'm saying this with 3 youth hunters in my household this coming season.
I'm also opposed to increasing the age from 15 to 17.
I'm also agreed with nocking off the last two weeks of general season for mule deer harvest.
I'm also opposed to increasing the age from 15 to 17.
I'm also agreed with nocking off the last two weeks of general season for mule deer harvest.
HighWildFree
Well-known member
The idea of youth hunts arose in states where general rifle seasons occurred after the rut, so in order to give kids an easy opportunity at a buck the youth season was held during the peak of the rut. I grew up in one of those states that was short on opportunity and hunted the youth season with my dad. It was a great time and I killed a lot of bucks but it in no way made a difference in terms of my recruitment to hunting; I was going to be a hunter no matter what.
I can't imagine any kid out there that really wants to hunt but can't during the general season. And if the general season is such a cluster#%@! then maybe we should address that. If we really wanted to give kids a special opportunity cut the last two weeks of deer season and give kids a 3 day season right around thanksgiving.
I'm against it.
I can't imagine any kid out there that really wants to hunt but can't during the general season. And if the general season is such a cluster#%@! then maybe we should address that. If we really wanted to give kids a special opportunity cut the last two weeks of deer season and give kids a 3 day season right around thanksgiving.
I'm against it.
T
tjones
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This proposal changes the definitions of youth for the early hunt from 10-15 to 10 to 17.
Ahh I see Rob pointed this out above.
Ahh I see Rob pointed this out above.
BuzzH
Well-known member
I think some great points have been made to oppose it, and since I don't live in Montana any more, I didn't comment on it.
Another thing to consider, and I've personally heard this in both MT and WY in regard to youth hunting. In the case of Montana, it came from Parent of the year runner up, "I'll take the kids out during the youth hunt so they can fill out and it wont interfere with my hunting the rest of the year".
The award winner, for Parent of the Year, was in Wyoming, "I'll take the kids out this weekend and MAKE them shoot a mule deer doe, so it doesn't interfere with me hunting bucks the last half of the season"...in an area in Region G that experienced significant winter mortality.
I often wonder if the REAL motivation isn't more along those lines when these youth seasons are first brought to the table. A way for the Parents of the Year to just get their kids a deer without cutting into their own seasons.
The other thing I often think about, all the kids that I grew up with that were serious about hunting, easy/early success isn't why they started hunting, and surely not why they continued. For the kids that were either half-assed hunters or their parents made them hunt, that I went to school with, most dropped out.
I don't think that dynamic changes and I surely don't think youth hunts keep kids involved over the long haul...you either have the desire to hunt or you don't, that simple.
My comments would be to completely do away with all special privileges that allow youth to have more days...reluctantly agree with allowing them shoot does and cows on their A tags.
Another thing to consider, and I've personally heard this in both MT and WY in regard to youth hunting. In the case of Montana, it came from Parent of the year runner up, "I'll take the kids out during the youth hunt so they can fill out and it wont interfere with my hunting the rest of the year".
The award winner, for Parent of the Year, was in Wyoming, "I'll take the kids out this weekend and MAKE them shoot a mule deer doe, so it doesn't interfere with me hunting bucks the last half of the season"...in an area in Region G that experienced significant winter mortality.
I often wonder if the REAL motivation isn't more along those lines when these youth seasons are first brought to the table. A way for the Parents of the Year to just get their kids a deer without cutting into their own seasons.
The other thing I often think about, all the kids that I grew up with that were serious about hunting, easy/early success isn't why they started hunting, and surely not why they continued. For the kids that were either half-assed hunters or their parents made them hunt, that I went to school with, most dropped out.
I don't think that dynamic changes and I surely don't think youth hunts keep kids involved over the long haul...you either have the desire to hunt or you don't, that simple.
My comments would be to completely do away with all special privileges that allow youth to have more days...reluctantly agree with allowing them shoot does and cows on their A tags.
T
tjones
Guest
Interesting comment from a guy I talked to at the Darby meeting. He was dead set against the youth season saying if kids can’t get it done in 5 weeks then to bad. Next breath he wanted more late season cow hunts in the Bitterroot because he sometimes doesn’t get a bull.
Gerald Martin
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At the Trout Creek meeting in Region 1 this proposal was met with overwhelming disapproval. Two people commented in favor of lengthening the season to four days, only one wanted to let 10-17 year olds hunt. He was the same guy that was mad youth hunters can no longer shoot cows on a general elk tag and also wanted LONGER seasons for mule deer. His ideas were not well supported.
D
Deleted member 18333
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This is an interesting take, you may very well be correct. The parents that I know who think these youth MD doe hunts in western Wyoming are a good idea and have their kids take advantage of them are the guys that see hunting camp as a social gathering and are not really all that interested in actually hunting but rather hanging out in camp and maybe driving a road. I think they see the doe hunt as a way to not disrupt their fireside gathering. They don't put much effort into finding a deer for themselves and they sure don't want to spend much time on their kids hunt.
My friends and I that really love to hunt and have a high desire would never let their kids take a doe MD in Western Wyo. We will however, take advantage of doe antelope and cow tags for ourselves and our kids.
2ski
Well-known member
Look, if there is a chance that it increases the number of hunter participation we get from these kids later on in life, is it really such a big deal to give them a two day hunt? I don't favor the 15-17 or four days, but I don't take issue with how it is now.
"My kids didn't need it" is such a silly argument. YOU are on a hunting forum talking about hunting so you aren't a great sample of the general population. Your kids were doing it either way. And you can probably get them on game. By designating a youth season, I see it being a focus of more people to get their kids out hunting those days. And just maybe, we get a little more hunter retention because of it. If a two day youth hunt gains us 50 extra hunters each year that continue later on in life because they got to harvest an animal their first year and got hooked wouldn't it be worth it? It's like fishing. If you get a little kid on perch and he catches them all day long, he's more likely to continue fishing in later years when he goes out after bigger fish and catches one or two a day, or even gets skunked. If you take a kid after trout and in a few hours nothings bit yet, how excited is he going to be to go next time?
I don't go out opening day because its such a zoo.
"My kids didn't need it" is such a silly argument. YOU are on a hunting forum talking about hunting so you aren't a great sample of the general population. Your kids were doing it either way. And you can probably get them on game. By designating a youth season, I see it being a focus of more people to get their kids out hunting those days. And just maybe, we get a little more hunter retention because of it. If a two day youth hunt gains us 50 extra hunters each year that continue later on in life because they got to harvest an animal their first year and got hooked wouldn't it be worth it? It's like fishing. If you get a little kid on perch and he catches them all day long, he's more likely to continue fishing in later years when he goes out after bigger fish and catches one or two a day, or even gets skunked. If you take a kid after trout and in a few hours nothings bit yet, how excited is he going to be to go next time?
I don't go out opening day because its such a zoo.
