MT Proposed 4 day youth deer hunt

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For what it's worth, here's a 2011 study showing that if there is a hunter recruitment issue in Montana, targeting youth isn't the answer- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jwmg.272/abstract

I'm still not convinced that we have a recruitment issue in Montana, it would be nice to see the rest of that study.

 

[mtmiller]

I don't favor the 15-17 or four days....

Why not?

 

[The Hedgehog]

So sick of hearing how many more hunters we need, it's almost as bad as hear how there is just no "access".

 

[Gerald Martin]

Look, if there is a chance that it increases the number of hunter participation we get from these kids later on in life, is it really such a big deal to give them a two day hunt? I don't favor the 15-17 or four days, but I don't take issue with how it is now.

We already have the two day hunt. This proposal doesn't change that. If this doesn't pass, kids 10-14 will still be able to hunt on the two day youth deer season. I think it's fine the way it is. It gets the kids a taste of hunting with a mentor who isn't at all distracted by tags in his pocket. After their two day hunt, they can still hunt the entire general season with their parents or mentor.

I'm all for giving kids plenty of opportunity, but four days isn't just opportunity, it's an advantage.

The one thing that I'm a little upset about is the mentored hunters were originally allowed to buy tags available OTC excluding elk. That included wolf, bear, and lion. After the season was underway, the legislature eliminated the wolf, bear, and lion tags being available to mentored hunters. Opportunities to kill wolf and lions are miniscule at best so I don't really care about that but my son was really looking forward to hunting spring bears. I didn't like it that they took that opportunity away.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I'm all for giving kids plenty of opportunity, but four days isn't just opportunity, it's an advantage.

And that's the nub of it.

Heaven forbid we give kids an advantage in learning a sport, rather than just have them compete with adults.

We come across pretty selfish at times.

 

[RobG]

Well, it does make it easier for a kid to get his/her first deer regardless of the quality of parents. Perhaps it is by design that the kids of crappy parents will benefit the most. But that question doesn't matter now: the youth hunt is a done deal. Now the question is whether to expand it to 17 years olds and add another two days. I think that crosses the line of helping a kid get his first deer and could impact other hunters who we also have to keep interested.

I don't know if an easy deer is what makes a future hunter, but my daughter got one on a youth hunt. She liked the hunt, but would now rather hang out with her friends than go again. However, she will always have that anchor point to reach back on and maybe someday in her future she will meet someone whose interest is hunting and she will have a little more in common with him/her. Or maybe she will want to go with me when she gets to be an adult and we have little else in common. A lot of us leave hunting in high school but return to it later in life because of the memory.

 

[mtmiller]

Studies have shown (Miller 2018) Montana big game hunters 40-49 are the highest diminishing user group between 2011 and 2017. Lack of opportunity was found to be main reason for this decrease in the age group. It is suggested the state of Montana permit rifle hunting the week between archery end and rifle opener to that diminishing user group (until next year when it will advance to the 50-51 age group). During leap-years and when MEA days fall on a weird days of the week, two days will be added on the front end.

Please feel free to add your own user group that should be allowed extra opportunities.
Out of shape people tend to have issues walking too far from a road....I believe we can work on this.
Women are a small percentage of the Montana big game hunting community....I believe we can work on this.

 

[RobG]

Folks on E-bikes need a week too. To lessen user conflicts, people born in odd numbered years can only hunt on odd numbered days. Similarly, people born in even years can only hunt on even numbered days. When a month ends in an odd day, the rules governing the following month are reversed (i.e. people born in odd years will only be able to hunt even days, etc). To help recruitment, children over 3 will be allowed to hunt on any day if they are accompanied by a mentor over the age of 15 and of proper birth record. If they don't shoot a deer they can shoot one (1) cow or a steer, but no bulls unless they possesses a special bovine bull permit. Anyone caught violating these rules will be subject to a fine of not more than $25 and flagrant violators will lose their 6th deer B tag.

 

[Ben Lamb]

This is going about how I expected.

Screw the kids, give me mine.

Strong work boys.

 

[375H&H]

Wyoming has a women's only antelope hunt and wounded warriors only antelope hunt...

 

[----]

This is going about how I expected.

Screw the kids, give me mine.

Strong work boys.

Make a case for why we should support it. All you've done is call those you don't agree with selfish. That's not convincing.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I'm sure my poor kids would greatly suffer without a special youth season.

 

[tjones]

Screw the kids, give me mine.

I have to assume this is typed in Fin's sarcasm font.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Make a case for why we should support it. All you've done is call those you don't agree with selfish. That's not convincing.

It will give parents more flexibility to plan hunts for kids based on acedemic and extra curicular activities.

It will help increase retention of young hunters by expanding the the flexibility of the hunt.

It's not likely to have any impact on the resource.

It's not a total expansion to 4 days, but only on years that qualify.

I'm fine removing the age increase to 17, in order to not create confusion.

If we're so starved for game that we can't add 2 days every other year or so, then perhaps we shouldn't be hunting deer as liberally as we do, and as such, I support the elimination of B tag mule deer opportunity across the state.

I find the idea that this will negatively impact deer to ring hollow. We're not talking about an army of 12 year olds out there slinging lead. It's going to a couple thousand kids looking for a deer. I'm ok with that.

 

[RobG]

I got to say that the "If you don't support this then you don't support kids" tactic is pretty low. And considering the repetition I am not sure that there's much sarcasm. Kids aren't the only user group that we need to keep engaged, and it is questionable if any special days (much less four) will help a measurable amount. Adults aren't going to be enthused about hunting if they think (correctly or not) that the kids are thwacking all the trophy deer.

 

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It will give parents more flexibility to plan hunts for kids based on acedemic and extra curicular activities.

It will help increase retention of young hunters by expanding the the flexibility of the hunt.

It's not likely to have any impact on the resource.

It's not a total expansion to 4 days, but only on years that qualify.

I'm fine removing the age increase to 17, in order to not create confusion.

If we're so starved for game that we can't add 2 days every other year or so, then perhaps we shouldn't be hunting deer as liberally as we do, and as such, I support the elimination of B tag mule deer opportunity across the state.

I find the idea that this will negatively impact deer to ring hollow. We're not talking about an army of 12 year olds out there slinging lead. It's going to a couple thousand kids looking for a deer. I'm ok with that.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see the benefits outweighing the extra stress it will add to the resource. We can't keep tacking on hunter days here and there and expect things to improve. One of these straws is going to break the camel's back, if it hasn't already.

 

[RobG]

The special hunt with extra days would have occurred 2 out of the last 3 years. I'm not sure how the future MEA dates line up with the opener, but I don't remember the MEA days occurring immediately prior to the hunting season prior to that. I'm really opposed to hunting the Thursday/Friday immediately before the season as it is disruptive. Seeing as I would benefit from this special hunt, it is hardly correct to say that I'm being selfish - quite the opposite as I'm thinking of the folks without kids.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see the benefits outweighing the extra stress it will add to the resource. We can't keep tacking on hunter days here and there and expect things to improve. One of these straws is going to break the camel's back, if it hasn't already.

I'm ok with that. I still respect you. This is a minor issue in the overall scheme of things and a disagreement among friends isn't the end of the world.

I do think we need to do something different with deer and I admit I missed my opportunity this year to try and pull something together. I just don't think we need to kill proposals like this under the guise of resource protection, when we're eliminating regs to protect the herds overall, when there's 170,000 of us out there looking for that booner forkie.

 

[The Hedgehog]

The deer status in MT is so terrible these days and every little bit of extra pressure hurts. Youth hunts are the best/easiest time to kill a big deer, hands down in MT. It happens, every year, lots. Even if only it's a couple thousand.. Sad excuse if parents can't find a day or two in the 5 week general season..

 

[tjones]

The deer status in MT is so terrible these days and every little bit of extra pressure hurts. Youth hunts are the best/easiest time to kill a big deer, hands down in MT. It happens, every year, lots. Even if only it's a couple thousand.. Sad excuse if parents can't find a day or two in the 5 week general season..

No kidding, The MBA rep supported killing does in HD270 because "bucks only breed 3 does by the time the rut is over so we need to remove some of those unproductive does."

I love these meetings.