Most definitive way to determine scope failure

[Schism]

Anything can happen but I would be shocked if ARC rings torqued to Ted's recommended specs are the issue.

Swapping the scope in question to another rifle proven to shoot, and swapping another scope to the rifle currently wearing the Leupold seems like a solid method to determine if the Leupold might be the culprit.

 

[millerkiller77]

You're probably aware of the difference with torque values on the ARC rings compare to typical scope rings? 30 is pretty light for the ARC rings because it is a single larger diameter screw compared to the typical 4 smaller diameter screws so it needs more torque to get similar clamping force.

I understand this and relate it to a skive vs non skive ferrule for hydraulic fittings.

 

[millerkiller77]

Anything can happen but I would be shocked if ARC rings torqued to Ted's recommended specs are the issue.

Swapping the scope in question to another rifle proven to shoot, and swapping another scope to the rifle currently wearing the Leupold seems like a solid method to determine if the Leupold might be the culprit.

Agree 100%
I have a different 34mm scope inbound and the Loopy boxed up for warranty "evaluation "

 

[woods89]

No, you read that right. Ted doesn't shy away from offending his customers.

Another post from Ted on a similar thread:

I like Ted.

Last I knew he didn't supply any product to competition shooters, i.e. sponsor them, or give to PRS prize tables. His reason was something like "if you see ARC products on a rifle at a competition, I want you to know that it was such an incredible product that the individual paid his hard earned funds in order to own and use said product." It's too bad that model isn't how the rest of the shooting and hunting world operates.

He's a unique and talented individual!

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I like Ted.

Last I knew he didn't supply any product to competition shooters, i.e. sponsor them, or give to PRS prize tables. His reason was something like "if you see ARC products on a rifle at a competition, I want you to know that it was such an incredible product that the individual paid his hard earned funds in order to own and use said product." It's too bad that model isn't how the rest of the shooting and hunting world operates.

He's a unique and talented individual!

I also appreciate his approach, enjoy reading what he has to say, but dont own anything he makes other than a couple sets of rings.

 

[perma]

No, you read that right. Ted doesn't shy away from offending his customers.

Certainly an odd hill to die on. Those rings must be really good.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I have had ARC M-10 rings on my hunting rifles for several years and they have been rock solid. I will likely never buy any other rings.

 

[Seamaster]

The most definitive way to determine viability of a scope is a scope checker. Most notably the Hood scope checker. The devise mounts 2 scopes side by side, one of which is frozen by glueing the erector tube in place so it can't move. The scope under exam is adjusted to the same point of aim as the frozen scope, and the rifle is fired. If the subject scope is looking at a different point of aim after the shot, it's defective. Google "Hood scope checker" to find images and text on how it works. There's no guessing about the quality of a scope after this test.

I have shot bench rest for many years. Most of the fellows that I shoot with use a scope checker. One of the regulars has one with a frozen 36 T that he lends to others. It takes the shooter and wind conditions out of the mix and just tests the scope.

I have seen some guys at the range (not the old fellows in the bench rest crowd) that blather on blaming the equipment for less than stellar groups. Sometimes it is the scope, the wind, the rifle, the rest, the ammunition, or the trigger operator. The best way to test if it is the scope is to eliminate the other potential causes.

 

[Hillbilly delux]

Did you ever find the problem. Please post answer if you did.

 

[cgasner1]

Did you try shooting it……like with a different rifle I’d almost bet if your shot that scope with a different gun it would cause it to fail

 

[millerkiller77]

Did you ever find the problem. Please post answer if you did.

I ordered a Burris XTR II, it should arrive in a day or two and I'll do a range test. The Leupold I shipped off for evaluation and most likely won't hear anything back for at least a month. I'll update this post afterwards.

 

[noharleyyet]

I have had ARC M-10 rings on my hunting rifles for several years and they have been rock solid. I will likely never buy any other rings.

Those look stout...interesting engineering

 

[millerkiller77]

Did you try shooting it……like with a different rifle I’d almost bet if your shot that scope with a different gun it would cause it to fail

I agree with your theory as well, that's why I boxed it up and sent it back to Leupold. Again.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Update to my scope situation: Scope back from Leupold and it works great.

 

[brockel]

Update to my scope situation: Scope back from Leupold and it works great.

What did they find wrong with it?

 

[Mallardsx2]

What did they find wrong with it?

I’ll have to read the paperwork but they said they replaced internals. They sent me the same scope back. Not a replacement.

 

[Laelkhunter]

All 70 rounds were the Norma tipped Bond Strike long range....... they shot well out of 3 other rifles in the same caliber and make for excellent brass to reload.

Maybe this rifle doesn't like the ammunition?? Try another brand with a different bullet type, weight, etc? If you get similar results, I would blame it on the scope.

 

[ImBillT]

The best way to know for sure is to purchase a scope base called a “scope checker”. It mounts to your rifle and has two pic rails. You mount two scopes simultaneously, zero one, then dial the second one to the exact same point as the first one. So when you look through either one they are both on the bullseye. Now start shooting. If both are good, then they will both continue to be aimed at exactly the same location. If the both pairs of crosshairs begin to shift relative to each other, then the good scope is the one that remains at the center of the group. If both are bad, then they will shift relative to each other and relative to the group.

It can be difficult to pick up on small shifts particularly with lower power scopes, two imperfect scopes, and rifle that isn’t extremely accurate. Guys checking multiple scopes for competitive use often purchase a “frozen scope” to use as the known good scope, and they’re using a heavy rifle with a flat fore end in a heavy front rest to shoot the groups. That said, with a frozen scope, any shift of the scope you’re checking indicates failure regardless of the group, so you could definitely do that regardless of the rifle and rest.

 

[yakimanoob]

Well, I'm glad you sent it back to Leupold instead of "back" to Amazon as suggested.

Did you ever get it back with a diagnosis? My money is on a parallax issue.

 

[millerkiller77]

Well, I'm glad you sent it back to Leupold instead of "back" to Amazon as suggested.

Did you ever get it back with a diagnosis? My money is on a parallax issue.

I got the scope back from Leupold with no repairs required. While it was at Leupold for warranty evaluation I purchased and mounted a Burris XTR II and got the same results. 200gr Bergers, 200 accubonds, 180 accubonds, 180 bondstrike, 181 hammers,166 hammers,175 LRX, and 175 Terminal ascent are the loads I tried in this rifle. The 180's had a few decent group sizes, just not where I was aiming, and not consistent patterns. Two different scopes, three different mounts, multiple shooters, a plethora of different ammunition. The only logical conclusion is that it was the rifle. I really wanted to sell the rifle but I doubt it'd sell after disclosing why I'm selling it. Add in the cosmetic blemishes and I'd be lucky to get 500 bucks for it.
I shipped it to a reputable gunsmith for a complete teardown.