More Eve of Destruction news

[WIbiggame]

Reading the arguments about how it's someone else's responsibility to pay for your retirement makes no sense to me. I get the logic behind SS and having some help.

But, how can anyone say its an employers responsibility to mandate a 401k or some form of retirement? Yes I think this should be offered and some sort of match is great. We are all adults and if you don't want to work until you die plan accordingly.

I know it was mentioned people see their retirement account and think they need a new truck camper etc etc but that's on them. They made the choice to pull it and my 5 and 8yo know choices have consequences.

 

[TN2shot07]

Reading the arguments about how it's someone else's responsibility to pay for your retirement makes no sense to me. I get the logic behind SS and having some help.

But, how can anyone say its an employers responsibility to mandate a 401k or some form of retirement? Yes I think this should be offered and some sort of match is great. We are all adults and if you don't want to work until you die plan accordingly.

I know it was mentioned people see their retirement account and think they need a new truck camper etc etc but that's on them. They made the choice to pull it and my 5 and 8yo know choices have consequences.

You want to hold people accountable for their own actions? Good luck with that plan!

 

[VikingsGuy]

Soc Sec has a number of reasonable tweaks that would fix - but there are NO votes in solving problems. Donors and voters respond to present fear, not past solutions. Neither party has any real interest in fixing anything these days - and that is OUR fault - they do what we incent them to do.

 

[mdhunter]

If ss wasn't expected to be the sole source of retirement income, then pensions shouldn't have been pushed out in favor of voluntary 401ks.

Expecting people to voluntarily contribute is a leap of faith. Expecting them to keep their hands out of their retirement 401's is another leap of faith.

Result for many is SS being their only source of retirement income.

I am a business owner however Buzz and I absolutely agree on people borrowing against their 401k’s. We can argue all day on why people live beyond their means, get into a cash crunch, or don’t have access to credit. The bottom line is borrowing against a 401k to pay creditors should be avoided at all costs. That money is protected from creditors. Don’t use it to pay off debt or take or worse, take on additional debt.

 

[TN2shot07]

I am a business owner however Buzz and I absolutely agree on people borrowing against their 401k’s. We can argue all day on why people live beyond their means, get into a cash crunch, or don’t have access to credit. The bottom line is borrowing against a 401k to pay creditors should be avoided at all costs. That money is protected from creditors. Don’t use it to pay off debt or take or worse, take on additional debt.

I’m not sure how to fix it other than to either absolutely not allow access to it until whatever “retirement age” is determined as or penalize withdrawals to the point nobody would touch it.

Someone above did mention at least protecting the employer match from the employee, which does seem like a step in the right direction.

 

[BuzzH]

Reading the arguments about how it's someone else's responsibility to pay for your retirement makes no sense to me. I get the logic behind SS and having some help.

But, how can anyone say its an employers responsibility to mandate a 401k or some form of retirement? Yes I think this should be offered and some sort of match is great. We are all adults and if you don't want to work until you die plan accordingly.

I know it was mentioned people see their retirement account and think they need a new truck camper etc etc but that's on them. They made the choice to pull it and my 5 and 8yo know choices have consequences.

Should be mandated part of compensation package, retirement, health coverage, etc. Pensions were really common not that long ago.

Expecting everyone to make good decisions is not reality. Plus, the U.S. is not going to allow a large percentage of it's citizens to have no retirement of any kind. It's going to be paid for one way or another.

 

[TN2shot07]

Should be mandated part of compensation package, retirement, health coverage, etc. Pensions were really common not that long ago.

Expecting everyone to make good decisions is not reality. Plus, the U.S. is not going to allow a large percentage of its citizens to have no retirement of any kind. It's going to be paid for one way or another.

Retirement is a new concept, for all of human history until the last century people worked until they died or “retired” from work to work in the household. It’s not unusual outside of the west for those older people to still live with their families (wow, no government child care required).

It is not the government’s responsibility or other tax payers to support everyone’s retirement. People should be held accountable for their decisions. The way people live should reflect their income, not what they think their income should be. If your income doesn’t support the lifestyle you want, change it.

Why should I be punished because someone drove new vehicles their entire life, took awesome vacations, and didn’t save s***?

This is absolutely the greatest country in the world as far as opportunity goes, but that doesn’t guarantee success.

 

[mxracer317]

LESS government intervention is what the founding fathers vision of this country was to be.

 

[BuzzH]

Retirement is a new concept, for all of human history until the last century people worked until they died or “retired” from work to work in the household. It’s not unusual outside of the west for those older people to still live with their families (wow, no government child care required).

It is not the government’s responsibility or other tax payers to support everyone’s retirement. People should be held accountable for their decisions. The way people live should reflect their income, not what they think their income should be. If your income doesn’t support the lifestyle you want, change it.

Why should I be punished because someone drove new vehicles their entire life, took awesome vacations, and didn’t save s***?

This is absolutely the greatest country in the world as far as opportunity goes, but that doesn’t guarantee success.

Not true at all, my Grandfather retired with a pension when he was 57, lived a comfortable life, owned a home, a cabin, new vehicles, did plenty of hunting, fishing, vacations, raised 2 kids.

My Dad has 2 pensions from the saw mills he worked at (both UNION pensions that the companies he worked for paid for), plus SS. He does really well.

Nobody is talking about what people can afford, we're talking RETIREMENT.

An employer provided pension plan was pretty normal not that long ago even in the private sector. Nobody is punishing anyone when it's part of the benefit package provided by an employer. Many times the pension plans are in lieu of higher wages.

They still do it for the most part with 401's, it's just that they should be more secured and it should be much more difficult, if not impossible for an employee to access that money prior to retirement age. Employers should also be required to contribute whatever they would match.

The .gov contributes 1% automatically into the tsp, and then employees had to "opt in" and contribute another 5% to receive the other 4% match. Now, new hires are automatically signed up for the full 5% match, they have to OPT OUT.

You can say anything you want, but you'll not convince me otherwise, that pensions and/or employer mandated 401's that employees can't withdraw until retirement should be required by law.

Yes, they work, and they work well when professionally managed. Check out the TSP:

he Thrift Savings Plan (TSP), a cornerstone of retirement planning for federal employees and uniformed service members, oversees an impressive $845 billion in assets, making it the nation's largest defined contribution plan. With 7 million participants, its scale and the active engagement of its members—who significantly contribute to receiving full matching funds—highlight its critical role in ensuring financial security.

Thrift Savings Plan Guide: What You Need To Know

A TSP is a defined contribution plan for retirement. Here's the information you need about this retirement account and how it may impact you.

www.forbes.com

116,827 tsp millionaires as of the end of 2023, low management costs as well, 48-52 cents/$1000 to manage it yearly, return on the C fund since inception in 1988 10.96%/year.

I wonder if someone started investing 20% of their gross salary since 1988 with almost 11% gains would be in a good position to retire?

I'll go out on the ragged, hairy edge, and say pretty good chance. Combined with a pension at 1.0-1.1%/year of high 3 salary, and also SS...likely pretty comfortable and able to retire at MRA of 57/30 years of service.

 

[ismith]

Quit crying and just keep working until you die on the job. The R's appreciate your dedication.

Oh, you’re still playing “red team blue team”. You do realize the current crop of republicans are just democrats from ten, twenty years ago right?

 

[Forkyfinder]

I think Grandpa Gustafson from Grumpy Old Men had about the best end of life a guy could ask for.

Fished, drank beer, ate bacon, chased women into his 90s until he died sitting on a couch overlooking a lake. Not too bad.

Watched that with my wife recently. Under rated movie!

 

[Nick87]

Watched that with my wife recently. Under rated movie!

Like for the first time?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Like for the first time?

Her first time.

I have family in southern MN - in the 90s that movie was a bigger hit than polka music . Id be disowned for not watching it.

 

[BuzzH]

Oh, you’re still playing “red team blue team”. You do realize the current crop of republicans are just democrats from ten, twenty years ago right?

What part isn't true about the R's wanting to get rid of SS, Medicare, and having people work until they die?

That kind of crap costs them elections, not surprised they haven't learned that yet. I suppose any lesson worth learning, is worth learning the extra hard way.

 

[Big Fin]

A seldom known rule about 401k plans is that employers can adopt a plan document that prohibits loans. I strongly recommended that to my clients who were adopting plans, but only a few did prohibit loans. Most allowed loans thinking some employees might quit as another alternative to get to retirement plan funds not available via a loan.

Given the 300+ plans we administered, experience says those employers were correct. Some long-time employees quit, then reapplied for their jobs after they got an early distribution and paid a penalty.

 

[WIbiggame]

Should be mandated part of compensation package,

I agree they should need to offer something ie 401.

Expecting everyone to make good decisions is not reality.

And that becomes the employers problem how? I agree 100% expecting people to make good decisions is delusional nowadays.

However, that is not my problem or any employers problem if someone decides a new truck, new camper, new house, etc etc and use their retirement to get it. Like I said my 5 and 8 year old understand all actions have consequences.

I choose to not have new vehicles, not have a camper, use my grandpa's old fishing boat, no atvs etc etc and am going to retire very comfortably at 50 or 55.

 

[WIbiggame]

. I suppose any lesson worth learning, is worth learning the extra hard way.

Wouldn't taking from your retirement to fund a lifestyle outside your means be a lesson "worth learning the extra hardway."

 

[Forkyfinder]

A seldom known rule about 401k plans is that employers can adopt a plan document that prohibits loans. I strongly recommended that to my clients who were adopting plans, but only a few did prohibit loans. Most allowed loans thinking some employees might quit as another alternative to get to retirement plan funds not available via a loan.

Given the 300+ plans we administered, experience says those employers were correct. Some long-time employees quit, then reapplied for their jobs after they got an early distribution and paid a penalty.

It is downright appalling how many professional people raid there 401k and use it as a home saving, emergency, or random bonus fund.

As long as people are free to make choices a healthy population % will make poor choices.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree they should need to offer something ie 401.



And that becomes the employers problem how? I agree 100% expecting people to make good decisions is delusional nowadays.

However, that is not my problem or any employers problem if someone decides a new truck, new camper, new house, etc etc and use their retirement to get it. Like I said my 5 and 8 year old understand all actions have consequences.

I choose to not have new vehicles, not have a camper, use my grandpa's old fishing boat, no atvs etc etc and am going to retire very comfortably at 50 or 55.

You're missing the point...the mandated 401 would be no different than previous pension plans. Employees couldn't borrow against it, couldn't draw it, until they retired. That would stop all the raiding of retirements for boats, vehicles, and vacations.

The employer mandated 401's would be part of the COMPENSATION package.

 

[Pagosa]

Retirement is a new concept, for all of human history until the last century people worked until they died or “retired” from work to work in the household. It’s not unusual outside of the west for those older people to still live with their families (wow, no government child care required).

It is not the government’s responsibility or other tax payers to support everyone’s retirement. People should be held accountable for their decisions. The way people live should reflect their income, not what they think their income should be. If your income doesn’t support the lifestyle you want, change it.

Why should I be punished because someone drove new vehicles their entire life, took awesome vacations, and didn’t save s***?

This is absolutely the greatest country in the world as far as opportunity goes, but that doesn’t guarantee success.

Agree 100%. So many people look forward to their retirement and waste their lives in the daily grind. I enjoy what I do most days, it’s not always easy, but plan to work until I physically or mentally can’t. We only may live for a handful of years past retirement anyhow, and we are only given today. As far as investments, I would 10 to 1 rather have money in physical assets, cash on hand, rentals, land, equipment, etc than a pension or 401k. I can use all those for my advantage currently for either appreciation, income, or depreciation on taxes.