More Eve of Destruction news

[BuzzH]

Wouldn't taking from your retirement to fund a lifestyle outside your means be a lesson "worth learning the extra hardway."

No, because people in the U.S. are not going to allow a huge segment of the population to live on the streets. They will get financial support one way or another, and you, me and every other tax payer will pay for it.

That largely goes away if there is no way for an employee to raid their retirement fund...fact.

 

[WIbiggame]

You're missing the point

I don't think I am. If someone wants to make a piss poor decision to take from their retirement let them, the employer did their part by giving them a plan for retirement.

 

[BuzzH]

I don't think I am. If someone wants to make a piss poor decision to take from their retirement let them, the employer did their part by giving them a plan for retirement.

Good "thinking", and you'll pay for it (their piss poor decisions) as a taxpayer, every...single...time.

It only makes raiding 401's (employer portion) off limits until retirement one thing, and that's total sense.

Look at the average amounts per age bracket that folks have in their 401's and try to tell me people are making good financial decisions.

They aren't and won't unless they have no choice.

 

[BuzzH]

A seldom known rule about 401k plans is that employers can adopt a plan document that prohibits loans. I strongly recommended that to my clients who were adopting plans, but only a few did prohibit loans. Most allowed loans thinking some employees might quit as another alternative to get to retirement plan funds not available via a loan.

Given the 300+ plans we administered, experience says those employers were correct. Some long-time employees quit, then reapplied for their jobs after they got an early distribution and paid a penalty.

Why am I not surprised?

I think the best bet would be to "split the baby" and make any 401 loan or distribution prior to retirement age, only available for the portion the employee contributed and no part of the employer provided match or accrued gains...IMO.

It's so mind boggling that people raid their retirement accounts and pay huge penalties outside of maybe a small handful of life-changing situations.

They lose so much all the way around...in particular the back end of the long game.

 

[ismith]

What part isn't true about the R's wanting to get rid of SS, Medicare, and having people work until they die?

That kind of crap costs them elections, not surprised they haven't learned that yet. I suppose any lesson worth learning, is worth learning the extra hard way.

I didn’t say republicans are dumb, they’re just as dumb as the democrats who I may add, are actively ensuring SS and Medicare won’t be around in ten years.

 

[BuzzH]

I didn’t say republicans are dumb, they’re just as dumb as the democrats who I may add, are actively ensuring SS and Medicare won’t be around in ten years.

How much you willing to bet that SS and Medicare are still around in 10 years?

I'd go $25k...enough to pay the winner a nice hunt for something.

If D's are ensuring they'll both be gone in 10 years, that's easy money for you.

 

[ismith]

$25k, enough to by a cup of coffee in ten years? How about a box of Remington Core Lokts in 30-06? That will no doubt be worth more.

 

[manitou1]

@BuzzH, this is something we mostly agree on, so not picking to pick. But life expectancy for a male in the US that has reached age 65 is 83 or so. When SS was started, it was probably 10+ years less than that.

I don’t think it is unreasonable to consider moving the SS age back a bit, nor do I think it’s appropriate to position SS as the sole means of retirement for most people. In my opinion, that is not what it is intended for- it is an insurance against poverty amongst the elderly. Exactly what that means is subject to interpretation, I do acknowledge that.

It is breach of contract. People willfully sign up for social security under the promise they can retire at 62, 67 for full retirement. Then the thieving gov will tell them at age 66... " Jokes on you... you paid in all your life but now cannot retire"!
The fix: Quit supplementing perfectly healthy young people who refuse to work, quit sending billions to finance other country's (Ukraine) wars, and quit sending terrorists countries (Iran) millions of our tax dollars!

 

[BuzzH]

$25k, enough to by a cup of coffee in ten years? How about a box of Remington Core Lokts in 30-06? That will no doubt be worth more.

I didn't know they still made core lokts, but I doubt they'll be worth $25k a box in 10 years.

I would think investing $25k each in an S&P index fund, payable to the winner, would be appropriate and worthwhile...yes?

 

[ismith]

I didn't know they still made core lokts, but I doubt they'll be worth $25k a box in 10 years.

I would think investing $25k each in an S&P index fund, payable to the winner, would be appropriate and worthwhile...yes?

That’s not the gotcha you think it is Buzz.

 

[BuzzH]

That’s not the gotcha you think it is Buzz.

Can't imagine why you'd be opposed to such easy money?

You'd double your investment, plus almost assured 7% compounded on 50k...maybe a whole lot better.

Tiddy sum....

I'm the one taking the risk, you said it's ensured, a foregone conclusion.

 

[ismith]

Can't imagine why you'd be opposed to such easy money?

You'd double your investment, plus almost assured 7% compounded on 50k...maybe a whole lot better.

Tiddy sum....

No, because I believe the dollar is never going to be worth any more than it is right now, drastically less as a matter of fact. No SS, no Medicare, no TSP, no Federal retirement, imagine that for a second Buzz.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[mxracer317]

A seldom known rule about 401k plans is that employers can adopt a plan document that prohibits loans. I strongly recommended that to my clients who were adopting plans, but only a few did prohibit loans. Most allowed loans thinking some employees might quit as another alternative to get to retirement plan funds not available via a loan.

Given the 300+ plans we administered, experience says those employers were correct. Some long-time employees quit, then reapplied for their jobs after they got an early distribution and paid a penalty.

And few people know about the rule of of 55 regarding 401k’s.

If you’ve done a good enough job saving for retirement and can do it between age 55 - 59.5, you can pull from your 401k and not pay an early 10% IRS withdrawal penalty.

You have to leave the money in the 401k for the distributions.

The minute you move that to a IRA and are younger than 59 1/2, the 10% early withdrawal penalty will be added.

I know you know this @Big Fin, but I bet a lot haven’t heard it before.

 

[HONEYBADGER]

Meh, the government will bankrupt Social Security and Medicare one way or another. Its just a matter of time.

 

[44hunter45]

It is breach of contract. People willfully sign up for social security under the promise they can retire at 62, 67 for full retirement. Then the thieving gov will tell them at age 66... " Jokes on you... you paid in all your life but now cannot retire"!
The fix: Quit supplementing perfectly healthy young people who refuse to work, quit sending billions to finance other country's (Ukraine) wars, and quit sending terrorists countries (Iran) millions of our tax dollars!

I don't remember being given a choice or signing a contract. I was told if I wanted to work I had to have a SS # and SSDI withheld.
Work for cash? Not me.

 

[BuzzH]

No, because I believe the dollar is never going to be worth any more than it is right now, drastically less as a matter of fact. No SS, no Medicare, no TSP, no Federal retirement, imagine that for a second Buzz.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Fantasyland nonsense....heavy on the nonsense.

 

[BuzzH]

And few people know about the rule of of 55 regarding 401k’s.

If you’ve done a good enough job saving for retirement and can do it between age 55 - 59.5, you can pull from your 401k and not pay an early 10% IRS withdrawal penalty.

You have to leave the money in the 401k for the distributions.

The minute you move that to a IRA and are younger than 59 1/2, the 10% early withdrawal penalty will be added.

I know you know this @Big Fin, but I bet a lot haven’t heard it before.

Lots of people should educate themselves about lots of financial things regarding retirement.

Most FERS employees don't realize they can draw about 60-80% of their SS offset between MRA +30 years or age 60 and 20 years of service until they reach 62. Some FERS employees can draw SS offset from as early as 55 years old with 30 years of service. I'm eligible to draw the SS offset 8 months from this November.

 

[mtmiller]

Lots of people should educate themselves about lots of financial things regarding retirement.

Most FERS employees don't realize they can draw about 60-80% of their SS offset between MRA +30 years or age 60 and 20 years of service until they reach 62. Some FERS employees can draw SS offset from as early as 55 years old with 30 years of service. I'm eligible to draw the SS offset 8 months from this November.

I am eligible at 58 and 8. I will accept the 3.33 years of Supplement.

 

[BuzzH]

I am eligible at 58 and 8. I will accept the 3.33 years of Supplement.

Did you work any seasonal years?

Going to lobby the Hill for a seasonal buy pack post 1989, have pretty heavy bi-partisan support for the bill with about 40 co-sponsors on the House side. Senate side support is also strong if we can get the bill through the House. Tester will be a sponsor on the Senate bill. Dock workers and the USPS lobbied it hard last year as well, I'm thinking we may get it this year.

Would be a good deal for a lot of FS, BLM, etc. seasonals as well.

 

[mtmiller]

Not much seasonal and I am pretty sure it is included on my Service Comp Date.

Love my job, but a day after 30 years (w/ Feds) I have other plans.