More Eve of Destruction news

This is a common misperception. There was never a "raiding" of those funds. I'm not 100% sure why this myth persists. Also, this view of SS as a bucket of funds with a hole in the bottom is a little off. It can never "run out". Right now there is an excess of past collections, ie. reserves, of about $2.7T that are by law invested in Treasury bonds. Once the excess is gone, the rules say payouts have to drop to match collections. It is impossible for SS to "go away" without an act of Congress to do that. The payouts simply match the inflow from taxes.

I’m not sure that description is entirely correct.

There was a time when Social Security was a “positive investment”. The fact was, the SSF (*social security fund) was growing faster than societal needs required.

I want to say it was in the 60’s…but don’t quote me. My college degrees were many years ago. Regardless…the end result was that there was such a predicted surplus of dollars in the social security fund that one Party (Demo’s, IIRC) proposed what has now been called “Raiding the Fund”…and pulled a chunk of money out of SSF.

An exerpt worth reading: https://www.ssa.gov/history/BudgetTreatment.html


THE ACCOUNTING PROCEDURES

"Off-Budget"
-

The Constitution (Article 1, section 9, clause 7) describes a very general federal budgeting process, requiring only that: "a regular Statement and account of Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time." Over the nation's history, the procedures involved in federal budgeting have varied a great deal, with a few major changes. (For a highlight summary of some important milestones see the excerpt from the Senate Budget Committee's report on the budget process.)

Modern federal budgeting has its origins in The Budget and Accounting Act of 1921. This law formalized the budget process. It regularized the process of the President producing an annual budget and submitting it to Congress in a specified procedure; it also created the Bureau of the Budget within the Office of the President (later renamed the Office of Management and Budget); and it created the General Accounting Office within the Congress to oversee the administrative branch's budget execution. From that point on, the President and his budget office controlled the presentation and content of the federal budget, and the appropriations committees in the Congress received the President's budget and acted upon it.

Trust funds are not exclusive to the Social Security program, nor were they new with its passage. At the present time, there are somewhere in excess of 150 different trust funds managed by the federal government. At the time of the passage of the Social Security Act in 1935 there were already in existence two major trust funds--those involved in the Civil Service Retirement System and the Government Life Insurance Fund established to insure World War I soldiers and their families. Trust funds have often been displayed separately in the federal budget, although their precise treatment has varied over time.

(For a detailed explanation of the federal budget process--with historical background--see the Senate Budget Committee's publication The Congressional Budget Process.)

From the beginning of the Social Security program its transactions were reported by the administration as a separate function in the budget. This is sometimes described in present usage by saying that the Social Security program was "off-budget." This was the budget representation of the Social Security program from its creation in 1935 until 1968.

"On-Budget"-

In early 1968 President Lyndon Johnson made a change in the budget presentation by including Social Security and all other trust funds in a"unified budget." This is likewise sometimes described by saying that Social Security was placed "on-budget."

This 1968 change grew out of the recommendations of a presidential commission appointed by President Johnson in 1967, and known as the President's Commission on Budget Concepts. The concern of this Commission was not specifically with the Social Security Trust Funds, but rather it was an effort to rationalize what the Commission viewed as a confusing budget presentation. At that time, the federal budget consisted of three separate and inconsistent sets of measures, and often budget debates became bogged-down in arguments over which of the three to use. As an illustration of the problem, the projected fiscal 1968 budget was either in deficit by $2.1 billion, $4.3 billion, or $8.1 billion, depending upon which measure one chose to use. Consequently, the Commission's central recommendation was for a single, unified, measure of the federal budget--a measure in which every function and activity of government was added together to assess the government's fiscal position.

This change took effect for the first time in the President's budget proposal for fiscal year 1969, which President Johnson presented to Congress in January 1968. This change in accounting practices did not initially put the President's budget proposal into surplus--it was still projecting an $8 billion deficit. However, it is clear that the budget deficit would have been somewhat larger without this change (it is difficult to say how much larger because this change was mixed-in with the other legislative, budgetary and fiscal policies the President was urging Congress to adopt). In early 1969--just five days before leaving office--President Johnson sent his 1970 budget message to Congress, also using the revised accounting procedures. At this point, a year later than his initial estimate, he was projecting the budget for 1969 to be in a net balance of $2.4 billion. (The fiscal year 1969 began on January 1, 1969, even though the President had released his FY 1969 budget almost a year earlier.)

The FY 1969 budget would not be implemented by President Johnson; it would instead be presided over by President Nixon, who took office on January 20,1969. This was 20 days into the 1969 fiscal year. When President Nixon took office, he too adopted the unified budget approach, and it was used by all Presidents thereafter until 1986.

And then: Fast forward, Reagan years…https://www.ssa.gov/history/Interne...l Security,an overwhelmingly bi-partisan vote.

Yeah, then the Fed started Taxing the distributions that were effectively provided by We The People making mandatory deposits.

Translation of the past 80 years or so…: the SSFund was well and good…so good in fact that the Excess that it was generating far exceeded expected needs. And so, it was blended into the regular fund (aka, “Raided”) so as to created a balanced budget.

And then the distributions were taxed under the argument that since they were a pre-tax fund at the start, they should be taxed when distributed.

Over time, the Fund, which was so successful, got thinner and thinner based on being “balanced”…and then factored life expectancy and growth projections…and, well, welcome to today.

Stating that the “fund was raided” is indeed a fair response. Both parties have happily gone after its golden coffers.

I’m 55…between my wife and I, SSN is a darn significant chunk of money. About $6k in retirement per month. Yeah, I have a nice 401k and investments…but that’s not the point. I paid into a fund…I expect to be paid out. That’s the principal of it.

Anything less is just a Tax, buried in a white lie.
 
They're just hoping people bite the dust before they can collect anything.

View attachment 320007
That's Veterans' Administration logic right there.

Consider what the fiscal, social and societal costs of a massive increase in elder poverty with reduction or termination of the social security program. IMO it is less expensive to operate a program to prevent or limit that crisis with a forced savings program, than to eliminate that minimal safety net and dump those costs on family, social welfare systems, and communities.
 
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Quit crying and just keep working until you die on the job. The R's appreciate your dedication.
SOMEBODY has to pay for the deadbeats and basement dwellers... and automatic, built-in congressional pay raises yearly.
 
Social Security was designed for a FEW years only, not 30+ years.

When it was implemented people typically worked until their mid 60s and passed away in their 70’s when life expectancy was shorter. There was no 30 year retirement then.

Ida Mae Fuller who is the first recipient of Social Security, ironically broke the mold by living a longer life for that period of time.

Social Security is a supplement. Not a sole source.

Roughly one in six men draw SS benefits for thirty years, if they begin drawing at 62. About one in five men do not live long enough to reach 62, the earliest year they could draw a benefit.

Social Security is a floor, not a supplement. Yes, for the comfortable, like myself, it is a supplement. However, for many various reasons, for many it is the majority of their retirement income. Unless they continue to work, which really isn't being retired.
 
They are not going to cut SS. Been the same message since well, forever.

It should have ended a long time ago and allowed people to invest the SS money into a financial retirement account. If you think the government is the best way to save money well.............. here you go.

yes i know you all say well then people wont have any retirement. lets remember when SS started it was never ever created to be a retirement plan. Just like socialized medicine, it takes away the employers ability to have benefits that are meaningful.
 
There are ways to take care of your future that doesn't rely so much on the government. It doesn't matter if republican or democrat, they will fail you because neither side cares about you.
Democrats are in the fast lane to insolvency. Republicans are in the slow lane. Just depends on how fast you want to get to the destination.

 
They are not going to cut SS. Been the same message since well, forever.

It should have ended a long time ago and allowed people to invest the SS money into a financial retirement account. If you think the government is the best way to save money well.............. here you go.

yes i know you all say well then people wont have any retirement. lets remember when SS started it was never ever created to be a retirement plan. Just like socialized medicine, it takes away the employers ability to have benefits that are meaningful.
I'm 60. Social Security will be means tested before I reach 69. I'm okay with not getting any benefit. I'm sure most young folks are not on board raising the tax rate of a ponzi scheme they won't see a dime of when they reach retirement age. I won't be paying much more in, so that's up to the young workers to sort out.
 
I took mine at 62. I'm 72 next month. I beat the hell out of my body all of my life working at one physical thing or another. There was a point somewhere in my late 50's where I realized that there were younger, faster, cheaper, more physically fit guys that could do what I was doing. I basically became unemployable. If you "work" for a living, Social Security can't come soon enough.
 
"It’s unsurprising, then, that a survey of 10,000 employees found that 45% of workers tasked with an eight-hour day actually work just half of that, spending the rest of their time surfing the internet, scrolling social media or making a coffee."

Fortune magazine quote^^

I KNEW it!!!!
 
Stating that the “fund was raided” is indeed a fair response. Both parties have happily gone after its golden coffers.
I have no dispute with anything you posted. I would have posted the same in defense of saying it wasn’t “raided”. There was a change in the budgeting process, but the impact of that on the trust can’t be determined because there are lot of variables - every age cohort living longer, incomes not keep pace starting in 80’s, etc. Economists generally view it as funds from the trust being loaned to other areas at market rates and being paid back later. I don’t think it is accurate to say the fund was “raided” because of the emotional reaction people have to the word.
 
I think that in the coming 20 years or so, it will be evident that the shift to 401k as the primary retirement funding has failed most Americans. Companies were happy to shift the onus to the employee. Once they pay their match, their obligation is fulfilled. It is entirely the individuals' risk, that the money saved is sufficient.
I think all responses lead to the same place- A government mandated retirement account. For example, 6% of individual’s pay goes in and 6% match by employer. What you invest in depends on your age, like a target date fund. Like SS you won’t be able to withdraw funds early or take a loan out of it. It just sits there, managed by the government, because a lot of people can’t be trusted to make good decisions. Sad but true.



No one has to say “more government”, but it’s implied very clearly about people wanting more government handouts and hating on “wealthy” people.

I’m tired of people hating on capitalism and the free markets.
I like your solutions. And yes, people love handouts. I don’t think people are hating on Capitalism. I think people working in corporate America are mad that they have to bust their hump for 40yrs to make what the people at the top make in 5.
 
"It’s unsurprising, then, that a survey of 10,000 employees found that 45% of workers tasked with an eight-hour day actually work just half of that, spending the rest of their time surfing the internet, scrolling social media or making a coffee."

Fortune magazine quote^^

I KNEW it!!!!

4 hours a day working and the rest on hunttalk.
 
"It’s unsurprising, then, that a survey of 10,000 employees found that 45% of workers tasked with an eight-hour day actually work just half of that, spending the rest of their time surfing the internet, scrolling social media or making a coffee."

Fortune magazine quote^^

I KNEW it!!!!
Thats because they have never had an empty belly, and because they have never had to work a real minimum wage job. $20 and hour is not a minimum wage. they need to learn what its like to work 2,3,4 jobs at a time to make ends meat. Then you learn to become a real worker and appreciate what an employer gives you.

I curse companies that have their staff working from home ( some jobs yes its required)
 
I think all responses lead to the same place- A government mandated retirement account. For example, 6% of individual’s pay goes in and 6% match by employer. What you invest in depends on your age, like a target date fund. Like SS you won’t be able to withdraw funds early or take a loan out of it. It just sits there, managed by the government, because a lot of people can’t be trusted to make good decisions. Sad but true.




I like your solutions. And yes, people love handouts. I don’t think people are hating on Capitalism. I think people working in corporate America are mad that they have to bust their hump for 40yrs to make what the people at the top make in 5.
First paragraph, absolutely has to happen or a lot of workers will be unable to retire.

The .gov already does it, TSP.
 

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