Montana’s Culture of Leniency Toward Poaching

[Straight Arrow]

Quote Originally Posted by Quackillr View Post
Warden shows up and asks him where he shot it from and proceeds to cite him for a violation that is intended to keep people from hazing elk. He lost his license for two years and paid a 1000 dollar fine.

Something tells me there's more to that story.

I agree.

 

[Trial153]

Not sure Montana has a monopoly on this. Local rural jurisdictions in general suffer from lack of respect for game laws, it’s the good old boys syndrome.

 

[mtmuley]

Not sure Montana has a monopoly on this. Local rural jurisdictions in general suffer from lack of respect for game laws, it’s the good old boys syndrome.

Good ol boy syndrome? I don't think so. Mostly it boils down to case load. At least in the county I live in. Wildlife violations take a back seat to other offenses. It's not right, but it is how it goes. mtmuley

 

[Doublecluck]

I agree.

Pretty cut and dry from what I heard, dude thought he made a mistake and would go plead guilty, say sorry to the judge and make sure he stepped over the fence next time. Maybe pay a couple hundred dollar fine. 87-6-403 wording states “shall” instead of “may” lose hunting privelages for 24 months. Judge said his hands were tied. When he protested after the judge told him he was going to lose his license for two years the judge got pissed and raised the fine from 200 to the max of 1000 is what he said. Dude seems pretty honest he always told me when he made a mistake when I was his manager. Could have been full of it I suppose.

Either way the point of my response is far to often in this country the punishment for people who make dumb mistakes and people who are outright law breaking poachers all to often seems the same.

 

[TheJason]

Good ol boy syndrome? I don't think so. Mostly it boils down to case load. At least in the county I live in. Wildlife violations take a back seat to other offenses. It's not right, but it is how it goes. mtmuley

In reality, it’s some of each.

 

[TheJason]

Either way the point of my response is far to often in this country the punishment for people who make dumb mistakes and people who are outright law breaking poachers all to often seems the same.

Which is what mandatory sentencing gets you. The reality is, he could have either been cited under a different statute, or he should have pleaded not guilty and asked for a plea deal through the prosecutor.

 

[TheJason]

Montana does not have a civil forfeiture law, which allows the state to seize assets used in the commit of a crime. The judge can order the forfeiture as part of sentencing, but it is not commonly done.

If MRCool indeed had a special permit for the unit, then trespassing was used as the means of charging him with unlawful possession.

 

[antelopedundee]

I didn’t time it, but if I had to guess I would say it took me between two and four minutes to type that. Not exactly an amazing amount of attention.
If not for my friends involvement, I would not know about it, so you’re right about that. The poaching of one of the largest typical elk in the country this year isn’t news worthy so I only learned of it through him.
Speaking of those topics, I found it interesting that the BLM refers to FWP to enforce the illegal ATV use across closed public land, and when that charge isn’t prosecuted they do nothing. I bet you could get in hot water with BLM just by doing what he did on the ATV, if hunting infractions weren’t involved and you dealt with BLM LEO instead. If not, it’s no wonder why we hear of so much illegal ATV use.

I get what Onpoint is saying but others would look at the issues he mentioned and sat it amazes them that people have the time to worry about habitat for animals, or access for priveledged people to enjoy hobbies like hunting and fishing when there are rapes, child abuse, human smuggling, wars, several billion people living in poverty without electricityor access to nutritious food, or clean water.

I say it is possible for people to think about and care about more than one thing at a time.

If this post isn’t for you, there are literally hundreds of posts on the topics you mentioned you can go back to and partake in the circular conversations of liberal versus conservative snivelfest that we all love.

To Fire9: if this isn’t considered poaching in the eyes of the law, I think that speaks loudly about the culture I’m talking about. It is more than trespassing.

Is Matt Cool still your friend?

 

[MTGomer]

We don’t like labels, but we do brunch and yoga.

 

[noharleyyet]

#watchyerstep Gomer, the sidewalk gumshoes are on the case.

 

[MJE2083]

Never, ever plead guilty.

That's easy to say, until you are faced with the prospect of having to spend thousands of dollars, lose your job, house, etc, and spend a significant amount of time in prison.

 

[Slam]

"Ben Lamb
Elections have consequences. "

If you care about better sentencing for this kind of behavior, ask your judicial candidates where they stand on wildlife crimes. FWP can only write the citation. The local judge, justice, etc is the one who sentences."


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Letters to the editor, call into talk radio, social media. Put the onus on the Judge to answer for the lenient sentencing!

The older I get the more emails, letters and phone calls I make to our elected officials to push my point of view and ask them to justify their actions. The message is always delivered in a civil, cogent manner, sometimes a bit colorful just because adjectives are fun.

This particular judge has some splaining to do.

 

[Labman]

Montana does not have a civil forfeiture law, which allows the state to seize assets used in the commit of a crime. The judge can order the forfeiture as part of sentencing, but it is not commonly done.

If MRCool indeed had a special permit for the unit, then trespassing was used as the means of charging him with unlawful possession.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...titutional-violates-the-eighth-amendment/amp/

USSC will decide soon if any state has the right a to civil forfeiture law.

 

[Killergaurd]

Politics.

 

[onpoint]

"Does anybody have any thoughts on how citizens might demand better"? Gomer.
"Elections have consequences. " Ben Lamb.
"The older I get the more emails, letters and phone calls I make to our elected officials to push my point of view and ask them to justify their actions". Slam.
"Politics" Killerguard.

A question is asked.
Answers are given. Some's feelings get hurt by the answers.
"Politics" IS actually answer, whether you lean left or right - doesn't matter. LAWS are legislated and ELECTED judges judge. You can curl up on the floor in the fetal position or cover your ears and go BLAH BLAH BLAH, or actually attempt to be part of the solution to the problem(s).
This stuff doesn't get solved in the internet.
Merry Christmas.

 

[Slam]

A recent Ohio case with a different yet curious outcome for how long the hunter lost his license.

https://woodburyoutfitters.com/the-...-county-deer-poached-amish-man-fined-2874146/

 

[Slam]

Just for the sake of discussion, the facts of both cases are not exactly the same, the Ohio poacher had no valid buck tag and did some pretty unethical things trying to cover his tracks, however, the "restitution" fine to the state was $121.92 per inch. A poached bull of 391 inches = a $47,670.72 restitution fee.

Those fine amounts are significant and get peoples attention, regardless if you think they are over the top excessive.

What blows my mind is the 1 yr license suspension. I think the judge was so blown away that Junior Troyer was able to pay the fine on the spot that he lost his head. Now, to find out where that fine went - I hope it did not go to the General Fund rather than the Div of Wildlife.

 

[Brian in Montana]

This stuff doesn't get solved in the internet.

Truer words weren't never spake.

 

[MTGomer]

Killing a wolf that was unknowingly across the park line, in a state that treats wolves like vermin, gets you twice the fine as the premeditated, intentional poaching and all the crimes that accompany said poaching, of one of the largest typical bull elk in existence.
The wolf fine seems fair for an accident. Still have trouble rationalizing how what amounts to pennies for anybody with a job is a good fine for any elk, much less a trophy of a lifetime.
https://www.ksl.com/article/4648509...killing-wolf-inside-grand-teton-national-park

 

[TheJason]

Comparing federal court to state court is apples and oranges. I don’t necessarily disagree with your premise, but you can’t realistically make the comparison.