Montana, talk to me about your mountain whitetail.

[TOGIE]

No, not about where I can get tags and go hunt them, although, sure, I am curious about that too.

But, educate me - what's the deal with those mountain whitetail in Montana? Are they endemic? How come this isn't a thing in Colorado? And is in places like Montana and the Black Hills?

Is it not as widespread of a population as I'm led to believe? In my head there is a pretty prolific whitetail population in the mountainous western part of the state. It seems there are some folks on here who go pretty hard and specialize their hunting on those mountainous whitetails. The reality is I'm just kinda jealous of that and it makes me curious about what the deal there is and why Colorado doesn't have anything like that.

It would be real cool if Colorado had mountainous populations of whitetail that could be hunted on public land. So why don't we and western Montana does?

 

[cgasner1]

You where lied to delete this thread

 

[Forkyfinder]

Elevation/ecology is the thing I think of. I know there's a lot of folks smarter than me who can comment - but i think your mountains are typically a base elevation of at least 5/6/7k+ - in the NW part of the state of MT it's 2/3k below that.

 

[rjthehunter]

Gotta shoot more mule deer to make room for them!

 

[TOGIE]

Elevation/ecology is the thing I think of. I know there's a lot of folks smarter than me who can comment - but i think your mountains are typically a base elevation of at least 5/6/7k+ - in the NW part of the state of MT it's 2/3k below that.

I would think that makes a lot of sense as being part of the answer.

Though you can look at species habitat distribution of whitetail in Colorado and there are areas in excess of 9,000 feet mapped. There is nothing remotely significant about whitetail there in terms of numbers, but they do sporadically exist there. By and large, any whitetail population occurring in the mountains of Colorado in excess of 7,000 feet is occurring on river bottom alfalfa fields essentially though, and still, they are not significant populations.

So ecology must be dominant? Which of course that ecology is a function of elevation.

Gotta shoot more mule deer to make room for them!

This is like the serious joke though right? It's what I've wondered and why I asked if they're endemic. What are the mule deer population like over by those montana whitetail? What has been the historical relationship there?

If many mule deer populations continue to struggle the way they do will whitetail slowly infill?

I dunno. I would mourn the loss of mule deer populations till my dying day, but I simultaneously would be pretty ecstatic at least another ungulate filled their place.

 

[rjthehunter]

This is like the serious joke though right? It's what I've wondered and why I asked if they're endemic. What are the mule deer population like over by those montana whitetail. What has been the historical relationship there?

If many mule deer populations continue to struggle the way they do will whitetail slowly infill?

I dunno. I would mourn the loss of mule deer populations till my dying day, but I simultaneously would be pretty ecstatic at least another ungulate filled their place.

It was kind of a joke, but at the same time also realistic. I think whitetail are capable of living almost anywhere. They're incredibly adaptive.

I find mule deer and whitetail pretty close to eachother fairly often. Usually mulies up a little higher and the whitetails down by the bottoms. Some crossover, but not a ton.

Hunting the 3 States with the Most Deer

Whitetails are the most abundant big-game animal in North America, but these three states likely have bigger herds than anywhere else

realtree.com

 

[TOGIE]

It was kind of a joke, but at the same time also realistic. I think whitetail are capable of living almost anywhere. They're incredibly adaptive.

Hunting the 3 States with the Most Deer

Whitetails are the most abundant big-game animal in North America, but these three states likely have bigger herds than anywhere else

realtree.com

Which really circles to the point of this thread. I agree. So why don't more places have mountainous whitetail?

My thoughts, that i never stated in my first post, are that I see no reason why some places would have mountainous whitetail populations and others wouldn't except for that's just how the chips fell over the evolutionary and distribution histories of these animals up to this point.




Is that black tail/white tail hybridization theory bunk or does it have gas in the tank?

 

[rjthehunter]

Which really circles to the point of this thread. I agree. So why don't more places have mountainous whitetail?

My thoughts, that i never stated in my first post are that I see no reason why some places would have mountainous whitetail populations and others wouldn't except for that's just how the chips fell over the evolutionary courses of these animals?




Is that black tail/white tail hybridization theory bunk or does it have gas in the tank?

I can't comment on the blacktail/whitetail debate.

It's probably evolution, I'm sure they'll get up higher in CO too. Could be hunting pressure that drives them up higher, or less mule deer. Should have transplanted some mountain whitetails instead of the wolves!

 

[TOGIE]

You where lied to delete this thread

but for real, i'm not trying to figure out how to go find some and bring one home.

I'm wondering why the hell they're even there, seriously.

And yeah, a big part of it is I'm jealous. Wish we had some legit mountain whitetail. I may try to go hunt them someday. But that'll be a different thread.

 

[cgasner1]

but for real, i'm not trying to figure out how to go find some and bring one home.

I'm wondering why the hell they're even there, seriously.

And yeah, a big part of it is I'm jealous. Wish we had some legit mountain whitetail. I may try to go hunt them someday. But that'll be a different thread.

Bears wolves and cougars that isn’t the single ladies next door kind of cougar. 10/10 would not recommend

 

[Irrelevant]

but for real, i'm not trying to figure out how to go find some and bring one home.

I'm wondering why the hell they're even there, seriously.

And yeah, a big part of it is I'm jealous. Wish we had some legit mountain whitetail. I may try to go hunt them someday. But that'll be a different thread.

it's the same critter than lives in the UP. Ecology is pretty similar too.

 

[TOGIE]

it's the same critter than lives in the UP. Ecology is pretty similar too.

but then how do we reconcile that ecologically with those northeast wyoming and black hills whitetails?

i think we just got the random shaft in colorado frankly.

edit: i guess a quick google hit will tell you the black hills are a bit of a hybrid ecologically between east and west. i think my real rub is public land whitetail is functionally nonexistent in colorado, i mean yes, i know of some places you could get it done, but by and large, comparatively, it's nonexistent. ergo, shafted.

 

[Beignet]

Elevation/ecology is the thing I think of. I know there's a lot of folks smarter than me who can comment - but i think your mountains are typically a base elevation of at least 5/6/7k+ - in the NW part of the state of MT it's 2/3k below that.

I’m tracking on this theory. Checked some waypoints and critters I’ve recently seen have been pretty exclusively under 5k in elevation in areas where base elevation is ~3k.

It’s a pursuit I really started getting excited about this past season. Still totally green on the subject, but had a lot of fun trying to figure them out.

 

[Irrelevant]

but then how do we reconcile that ecologically with those northeast wyoming and black hills whitetails?

i think we just got the random shaft in colorado frankly.

edit: i guess a quick google hit will tell you the black hills are a bit of a hybrid ecologically between east and west. i think my real rub is public land whitetail is functionally nonexistent in colorado, i mean yes, i know of some places you could get it done, but by and large, comparatively, it's nonexistent. ergo, shafted.

according to this:https://www.whitetailsunlimited.com/i/p/bk_distribution.pdf
you're flush with WT of three different subspecies!

 

[TOGIE]

according to this:https://www.whitetailsunlimited.com/i/p/bk_distribution.pdf
you're flush with WT of three different subspecies!

see that white part of the map? yeah, that's the public land part lol.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

but then how do we reconcile that ecologically with those northeast wyoming and black hills whitetails?

i think we just got the random shaft in colorado frankly.

edit: i guess a quick google hit will tell you the black hills are a bit of a hybrid ecologically between east and west. i think my real rub is public land whitetail is functionally nonexistent in colorado, i mean yes, i know of some places you could get it done, but by and large, comparatively, it's nonexistent. ergo, shafted.

There’s no river bottom public land????? I know that doesn’t help the mountain whitey part, but theres nowhere public that would even harbor them?? Maybe those kind of areas just stand out to me because I know I’d rather hunt whitetail..

If there is alfalfa fields at 7000 ft I’d be trying to find some decent bedding cover in the nearby public land, like real nearby if possible. Lol I never thought in a million years we’d run into my buddies whitey where we were, but there he was, 1mile away and probably 1200 vertical feet From the field that held all the does all day

 

[ismith]

see that white part of the map? yeah, that's the public land part lol.

Lots of Whitetails back east.

 

[TOGIE]

There’s no river bottom public land????? I know that doesn’t help the mountain whitey part, but theres nowhere public that would even harbor them?? Maybe those kind of areas just stand out to me because I know I’d rather hunt whitetail..

If there is alfalfa fields at 7000 ft I’d be trying to find some decent bedding cover in the nearby public land, like real nearby if possible. Lol I never thought in a million years we’d run into my buddies whitey where we were, but there he was, 1mile away and probably 1200 vertical feet From the field that held all the does all day

there are several river bottom tags available. that's about it, several. and there is enough public and enough deer that you'll get one. some of those tags take some points though.

whitetail in colorado is by and large a private land game, with a literal few tags that contain workable amount of public land.

those mountain alfalfa fields... believe me, i've thought long and hard about it, even have multiple canyons on public right next to the fields to sit and watch mapped out. those tags are over the counter unlimited E/S whitetail only, which also means those tags exist for the sole purpose of crushing the populations... not a great public land hunt, to put it mildly.

so, if it wasn't for nonexistent free time between wife, kids, dogs, work, i'd maybe go poke around on that tag. tags like that take serious time to tease apart to find the needle in the haystack, time I don't have. can't blow all my very limited hunting time on a moonshot lol. the reputation on those tags is justified and not exaggerated: really not worth the time without access to private.

 

[TOGIE]

Lots of Whitetails back east.

oh yes. and i even have me some primo deluxe whitetail access on the other side of the ol Mississippi.

 

[Moserkr]

Back when I lived in MT I shot 2 mountain whitetail. Both were in the 4-5000' range of elevation, 3-4 miles from the nearest farm fields. Both were shot in the bottom of the draw along the creeks coming off the mtns above. Nothing special for antlers, just good eating deer. Definitely not an easy hunt.