Montana season structure proposal 2.0

[Ought Six]

This place is depressing

 

[DFS]

Not giving shits about the funding means you don’t give shits about your ideas becoming reality…

I don’t disagree that your ideas could be a biological improvement as well as improving hunt quality if they were adopted by the agency. I just don’t think that’s a legislative fight that would be won and I don’t see anyone stepping up to sponsor that bill.

Agreed. That’s why a drive across an imaginary state line makes all the difference. Montana can’t be fixed with the current restraints.

 

[cgasner1]

Agreed. That’s why a drive across an imaginary state line makes all the difference. Montana can’t be fixed with the current restraints.

There is a 100 different ways we can fail at getting anything accomplished. If the dollars don’t make sense this won’t happen. Love it or hate it that is the reality.

 

[TheJason]

It’s not mathematical gymnastics it’s wildlife management and it needs to happen. 40% of the previous years resident harvest is extremely generous. I don’t give one shit about the funding because I can see what we are currently getting.

It is currently mathematical gymnastics because the total number of deer and elk tags are statutorily set. If you shift x number of hunters from one or more regions, they are simply displaced somewhere else within the confines of the state.

I'm not arguing what any caps should or shouldn't be, and I didn't speak to the validity or lack thereof of your numbers. It's a moot point. See my first paragraph.

I also didn't speak to funding either. Honestly, if I was a Montana hunter I would question what my funding was getting me too, besides a 12 week hunting season that hasn't really adapted to wildlife numbers in quite some time except to become longer.

 

[TheJason]

There is a 100 different ways we can fail at getting anything accomplished. If the dollars don’t make sense this won’t happen. Love it or hate it that is the reality.

Absolutely true.

 

[TheJason]

This place is depressing

Maybe I should have taken longer to change my oil and rotate my tires.

 

[Ought Six]

There is a 100 different ways we can fail at getting anything accomplished. If the dollars don’t make sense this won’t happen. Love it or hate it that is the reality.

What is the cost of FWP producing a mule deer? They don’t produce mule deer. Why does it take so much money for them to “manage” a wild population so poorly? Where is this money going?

 

[Gerald Martin]

Every construction remodel that I have ever been part of worked with the structure of what was to turn it into something better.

Believe me, I have had plenty of opinions about what should have been and what should be, but none of that changed what was. It required step by step changes to parts to improve the whole.


* that’s a metaphor, BTW.

 

[DFS]

This place is depressing

Common sense could go a long ways for our wildlife.

 

[rogerthat]

This place is depressing

I will take “The words I mumble to myself after spending a day mule deer hunting public land in region 7 MT for $1000 Alex”

 

[cgasner1]

What is the cost of FWP producing a mule deer? They don’t produce mule deer. Why does it take so much money for them to “manage” a wild population so poorly? Where is this money going?

That seems like a @Ben Lamb question. He is the numbers guy

 

[Gerald Martin]

Seems like all you guys are circling back to the talking points. to me like we are all on the same team with this despite what license plate your Prius has on it. @TheJason I 100% agree the issue is much larger than just nr and worry that by changing stuff with the nr it will just hit the pause button on what needs done.

Reading through your post reminded me of our previous conversations about how that current resident hunter days have increased to an equivalent rate comparable to an additional 18,000 NR hunters.
NR hunters are an easy target for folks who are frustrated with their hunting experience but changes to how many days residents spend afield is happening at a much greater scale than NR’s. Focus on NR’s only might relieve social frustration but probably won’t change much pressure on the resource.

 

[DFS]

Reading through your post reminded me of our previous conversations about how that current resident hunter days have increased to an equivalent rate comparable to an additional 18,000 NR hunters.
NR hunters are an easy target for folks who are frustrated with their hunting experience but changes to how many days residents spend afield is happening at a much greater scale than NR’s. Focus on NR’s only might relieve social frustration but probably won’t change much pressure on the resource.

 

[TheJason]

NR hunters are an easy target for folks who are frustrated with their hunting experience but changes to how many days residents spend afield is happening at a much greater scale than NR’s. Focus on NR’s only might relieve social frustration but probably won’t change much pressure on the resource.

That’s pretty much what I was driving at. Until you change the foundation (ie season structure) it’s foolish to expect the house to be any more stable.

That’s a metaphor too.

It’s worth noting this downward spiral started way back when folks thought a Billings plate was the equivalent of a NR.

 

[DFS]

That’s pretty much what I was driving at. Until you change the foundation (ie season structure) it’s foolish to expect the house to be anymore stable.

That’s a metaphor too.

It’s worth noting this downward spiral started way back when folks thought a Billings plate was the equivalent of a NR.

It’s also worth noting you can change the season structure and those harvest stats won’t change until you have regional caps for nonresidents.

 

[cgasner1]

That’s pretty much what I was driving at. Until you change the foundation (ie season structure) it’s foolish to expect the house to be anymore stable.

That’s a metaphor too.

It’s worth noting this downward spiral started way back when folks thought a Billings plate was the equivalent of a NR.

And here I thought you and I might get along what’s with this Billings plate thing

 

[cgasner1]

Reading through your post reminded me of our previous conversations about how that current resident hunter days have increased to an equivalent rate comparable to an additional 18,000 NR hunters.
NR hunters are an easy target for folks who are frustrated with their hunting experience but changes to how many days residents spend afield is happening at a much greater scale than NR’s. Focus on NR’s only might relieve social frustration but probably won’t change much pressure on the resource.

I just hope this works. I really hope we break the chains of a ht echo chamber by the way this was put together. Even if you read this thread there is a lot of F this guy or F that group we took a total different approach and brought all those people to the table. Most people seem to just still be trying to preserve what they value for their own season. Until we all look into the mirror and address the issue nothing changes. This rant brought on by last few pages

 

[Ought Six]

And here I thought you and I might get along what’s with this Billings plate thing

Billings plates were the original Bozeman guy plates

 

[TheJason]

And here I thought you and I might get along what’s with this Billings plate thing

30 years ago the folks down around Otter used to hold their noses when they talked about Billings hunters.

 

[TheJason]

It’s also worth noting you can change the season structure and those harvest stats won’t change until you have regional caps for nonresidents.

And that’s where you and I will heartily disagree.

The mule deer hunting in the breaks north of Lewiston absolutely tanked in the early to mid 2000s when cow elk hunting went ultra liberal. Every person up there hunting cows also had extra packers who were also toting a deer tag. During the rut. Same thing happened on the Custer.

What you see now is just a continuation of what began decades ago. The R/NR issue is ancillary to the greater issue.