Montana season structure proposal 2.0

[sclancy27]

Any data to back up these proposed changes will do anything?

Just Seams a little funny that colorado surprisingly defeated the lion hunting ban on promoting listen to the experts then you have montana going the opposite direction the citizens think they know more then the experts.

We've gone thru a significant amount of harvest data that shows several issues. Our goal is to use a changed season structure to incentivize human behavior to address those issues. The other options are do nothing or regulate changes (limited tags, regional quotas, etc). We believe our proposed changes can produce positive benefits while limiting unintended consequences and maintaining a high level of opportunity.

 

[Archer86]

We've gone thru a significant amount of harvest data that shows several issues. Our goal is to use a changed season structure to incentivize human behavior to address those issues. The other options are do nothing or regulate changes (limited tags, regional quotas, etc). We believe our proposed changes can produce positive benefits while limiting unintended consequences and maintaining a high level of opportunity.

No concern for the unintended consequence of putting most of you mule deer hunters in the field the last week of October?

Seams like doe harvest would be a big issue i looked through the thread but didn't see anything may have missed it whats the reason for leaving mule deer doe harvest on private but not public I would think you would want to eliminate all mule deer doe harvest if herd size is the concern?

 

[cgasner1]

No concern for the unintended consequence of putting most of you mule deer hunters in the field the last week of October?

Seams like doe harvest would be a big issue i looked through the thread but didn't see anything may have missed it whats the reason for leaving mule deer doe harvest on private but not public I would think you would want to eliminate all mule deer doe harvest if herd size is the concern?

No concern at all to cut the number of mule deer hunters with the split and not let them flood the last week of November

 

[Forkyfinder]

Any data to back up these proposed changes will do anything?

Just Seams a little funny that colorado surprisingly defeated the lion hunting ban on promoting listen to the experts then you have montana going the opposite direction the citizens think they know more then the experts.

I used to agree with your logic - but the biologists dont really get to set tag allocations, seasons, or make adjustments as they see fit.....Seperately, credentials dont really mean everything and you can be an expert without them and the comittee is represented by what a lot of people would call experts.

 

[Archer86]

No concern at all to cut the number of mule deer hunters with the split and not let them flood the last week of November

my guess is there will be no change in those that choose to hunt mule deer or whitetail just because the the season dates those the hunted whitetail will continue and those that mule deer hunt will flood the last week of October.

 

[sclancy27]

No concern for the unintended consequence of putting most of you mule deer hunters in the field the last week of October?

Seams like doe harvest would be a big issue i looked through the thread but didn't see anything may have missed it whats the reason for leaving mule deer doe harvest on private but not public I would think you would want to eliminate all mule deer doe harvest if herd size is the concern?

Currently, there is huge incentive to concentrate hunters the last 10-14 days of November (rut). Our structure will push that incentive to whitetails as hunters will have to make a choice; hunt whitetails in the rut or mule deer, best case scenario, at the beginning of the pre-rut. You cannot hunt both.

Also, the current season is 36 days. Our proposed total is 61 days. If you assume harvest rates are indicative of Hunter pressure, you can assume 45-50% of residents will continue to hunt whitetails. This cuts pressure significantly. Then, it is reasonable to expect that more NR will pursue WT deer in the rut vs mule deer (at worst one would expect it to not change), which further reduces pressure.

Doe harvest on public vs private is a temporary measure while herds recover on public land.

 

[cgasner1]

my guess is there will be no change in those that choose to hunt mule deer or whitetail just because the the season dates those the hunted whitetail will continue and those that mule deer hunt will flood the last week of October.

Having “all the pressure” in the last week of October is no where near the same as November. Even besides the rut being taken out not a lot of people dream of deer hunting a blue bird 60 degree day. November usually means colder and snow.

 

[Archer86]

Having “all the pressure” in the last week of October is no where near the same as November. Even besides the rut being taken out not a lot of people dream of deer hunting a blue bird 60 degree day. November usually means colder and snow.

Just asking questions seams like you guys are not going to get the results you intend but time will tell I guess.

Seams like you would be better served to try a regions not the whole state at once what happens if this doesnt accomplish what you guys think?

 

[Flynarrow]

So a lot of credible ideas presented here to manage populations on a unit by unit or regional basis. However, FWP under Director Temple has been on a rage to force centralize decisions and power at the expense of regional discretion. Centralization normally reduces local discretion in an effort to "standardize" at a statewide perspective. Now that Temple is leaving, the Governor has an opportunity to select a new Director. Some are speculating that the Governor, with strong ties to the outfitting industry, will select someone of that bent. Wouldn't it be refreshing to instead have a Director who had a biological background that cared about healthy populations of big game as well as fisheries for the average Montanan?

 

[sclancy27]

Just asking questions seams like you guys are not going to get the results you intend but time will tell I guess.

Seams like you would be better served to try a regions not the whole state at once what happens if this doesnt accomplish what you guys think?

Well first it would need to be provisioned as-is. The over-arching goal is to get the ball rolling on what is a long overdue change in MT. If that happens to be our proposal in full, so be it. If it is incremental positive change over time, so be it.

Second, all this maintains Commission control over season setting/structure. It could therefore be iterated as needed in the future to better suit any change, or lack there of, that occurs.

 

[SAJ-99]

Well first it would need to be provisioned as-is. The over-arching goal is to get the ball rolling on what is a long overdue change in MT. If that happens to be our proposal in full, so be it. If it is incremental positive change over time, so be it.

Second, all this maintains Commission control over season setting/structure. It could therefore be iterated as needed in the future to better suit any change, or lack there of, that occurs.

Someone needs to introduce the new member to politics in Montana, and on his one year anniversary of joining.

 

[Archer86]

Someone needs to introduce the new member to politics in Montana, and on his one year anniversary of joining.

I am well aware of montana politics that's why I am asking these questions. The likelyhood this even happens is very low but if put in place and it doesn't change anything this same group will push for more restrictions even though it's not helping but please do explain been around here longer then a year but apperantly math isn't your strong suit

 

[cgasner1]

I am well aware of montana politics that's why I am asking these questions. Because when it doesn't change anything this same group will push for more restrictions even though it's not helping but please do explain been around here longer then a year but apperantly math isn't your strong suit

This plan has already been called to restrictive and set people over the edge. The entire point of this is to keep people hunting without adding restrictions such as limited entry. Out of curiosity how would you address the issues the state seems to be seeing?

 

[Archer86]

This plan has already been called to restrictive and set people over the edge. The entire point of this is to keep people hunting without adding restrictions such as limited entry. Out of curiosity how would you address the issues the state seems to be seeing?

1.Eliminate all mule deer doe harvest public and private across the state doe's grow the herds not bucks.

2.Set region caps for nr

3.shorten the November mule deer hunt to end before Thanksgiving but still give some rut hunting let whitetail run through the end of the month don't make them pick a species.

Leave everything else alone and see what happens.

 

[Forkyfinder]

1.Eliminate all mule deer doe harvest public and private across the state doe's grow the herds not bucks.

2.Set region caps for nr

3.shorten the November mule deer hunt to end before Thanksgiving but still give some rut hunting let whitetail run through the end of the month don't make them pick a species.

Leave everything else alone and see what happens.

Point 2 is a deal breaker. You have to remember that outfitting will not like that and their interests out weigh any DIY...

 

[Ought Six]

1.Eliminate all mule deer doe harvest public and private across the state doe's grow the herds not bucks.

2.Set region caps for nr

3.shorten the November mule deer hunt to end before Thanksgiving but still give some rut hunting let whitetail run through the end of the month don't make them pick a species.

Leave everything else alone and see what happens.

Perfect. Anything is better than continuing as is

 

[bigsky2]

my guess is there will be no change in those that choose to hunt mule deer or whitetail just because the the season dates those the hunted whitetail will continue and those that mule deer hunt will flood the last week of October.

Why do you feel those that chose to hunt mule deer would hunt the last week of October? If that were the case, what would be wrong with that?

 

[Ought Six]

Why do you feel those that chose to hunt mule deer would hunt the last week of October? If that were the case, what would be wrong with that?

Agreed. I hunt the last week of October every year and the old mature bucks are always extremely difficult to turn up. Yet come the end of November they are just wandering aimlessly getting whacked from 600 yards

 

[SAJ-99]

I am well aware of montana politics that's why I am asking these questions. The likelyhood this even happens is very low but if put in place and it doesn't change anything this same group will push for more restrictions even though it's not helping but please do explain been around here longer then a year but apperantly math isn't your strong suit

Sorry, misread the date. 18 months. You clearly have not read this thread or the one before it or the one before that and let it all sink in. This group is just trying something, hell, anything, and that is a positive because Montana hunters don't like change. That is commendable. Bios vary from region to region. Those that say everything is fine are probably looking for a promotion. Those that try to make restrictions are gluttons for punishment. Doing what is right for the resource is hard.

I agree, low likelihood this happens if full. I think your concern over the last week in October, while on a solid basis, is probably overblown. Hunting MD out of prime rut is a different ball game. What do you want to see?

Also, the question of "How do you measure success?" was also brought up and it a completely legit question to the group. How would you measure success?

If I was to fault this group, it would be in trying to continue to pleasure the "opportunity" mentality. But it is still a step in the right direction.

 

[Archer86]

Sorry, misread the date. 18 months. You clearly have not read this thread or the one before it or the one before that and let it all sink in. This group is just trying something, hell, anything, and that is a positive because Montana hunters don't like change. That is commendable. Bios vary from region to region. Those that say everything is fine are probably looking for a promotion. Those that try to make restrictions are gluttons for punishment. Doing what is right for the resource is hard.

I agree, low likelihood this happens if full. I think your concern over the last week in October, while on a solid basis, is probably overblown. Hunting MD out of prime rut is a different ball game. What do you want to see?

Also, the question of "How do you measure success?" was also brought up and it a completely legit question to the group. How would you measure success?

If I was to fault this group, it would be in trying to continue to pleasure the "opportunity" mentality. But it is still a step in the right direction.

Still off on your math....April 2022 to current try again.... hint we are getting close to 2025

I skipped through it and looked at the proposals

its hard to see so many dismiss wildlife biologist as doing what's good for them I like to belive most have a passion for wildlife and want them to thrive maybe I am wrong.

hunting mule deer in the first week of October can be as good as the rut if you know what your doing but most will hunt the last week of October hoping to catch some rutting action nothing wrong with that but it will be heavily pressured and I think that's being underestimated and when hunters can't find the mature bucks the little bucks will get shot as a opportunity buck by some.

Success would be growing the deer herd overall numbers not just big bucks

I am not faulting this group hope they succeed in a positive outcome for the mule deer herd but you won't get anything done trying to do to much at once and then if it doesn't work whats next......more restrictions because the last ones didn't work