It's the Montana way. mtmuley
Montana Resident MSG Free Lottery
- Thread starter Big Sky Guy
- Start date
Elky Welky
Well-known member
Gotcha. I don't think this has much to do with opportunity. Again, with those draw odds and a tag rotating every three years there's not really much of an opportunity being given here. Giving a tag to one person out of 140,000 isn't really managing for opportunity. Maybe just an opportunity for the Regiers to make political points, but again, who for? Hunters by-and-large don't seem to be excited about this. Many residents who buy deer/elk tags aren't committed hunters and they probably don't put in for MSG every year, so it can't be them.
It's a question I asked earlier in this thread: the bill was met with a collective shrug, and here it is, now the law, and we're still shrugging.
BuzzH
Well-known member
But if one tag isn't that big of deal, why didn't they offer it in the draw then?
Wyoming uses the same "logic" all the time and my question is always, when is one more, just one too many?
Finally, you say it's no big deal, but for a guy that applies for a specific tag for a low quota unit, burns a lifetime opportunity, and then finds out one additional tag was issued, that becomes a pretty big deal for the guy that applies thinking he was going to be the only hunter.
Further even in higher quota areas, if the guy that got this giveaway tag, kills the ram, goat, or bull moose you have scouted and waited 30+ years for...yeah, good luck convincing him it's "no big deal".
I just have to question why Montana has to continually find ways to give out more hunting opportunities. No matter how infinitesimal it seems to you. mtmuley
Elky Welky
Well-known member
It's a fair question. I feel like I've made it clear I think this one is particularly dumb, and I'm right there with you that I have no clue why they legislated for this. It didn't get the support of any conservation orgs or hunters.
D
Deleted member 48080
Guest
Has anyone seen any language on how they're deciding what species is up each year? The bill doesn't say anything that I'm finding.
Elky Welky
Well-known member
It's at the discretion of the commission.
(4) The commission shall establish rules regarding:
(c) The rotation between the three species each year.
So we just have to keep our eye on the commission agenda for when they choose to make the rules.
cgasner1
Well-known member
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- Apr 24, 2016
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Would have made more sense to do it for hunters that apply for all of the big 3. At least it could avoid grannies November goat hunt
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doesn’t seem like there is a good reason to even issue issue the tag.
Elky Welky
Well-known member
To @BuzzH's point, (which I just noticed), it would also be better if this came out of the already existing supertags. Since those already exist, they, theoretically, cause the potential problems he flagged. I've never heard someone complaining about an animal they've been putting in for and scouting for years getting killed by a supertag holder (which is not a points draw system, but just as dumb of luck as this), but that scenario does already potentially exist.
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I agree, I told the wife this year when I do her tags she is going to be entered into a msg draw automatically. Her reply " That's stupid, if I wanted to hunt moose, sheep, or goat. I would put in for them." she likes to go out for a whitetail and a cow but that's about it.
T
tjones
Guest
The "ahh shucks it's just one more tag" is one of the reasons we have ended up with the least amount of MSG permits ever.
We all heard the same thing last year when FWP messed up the MSG drawing and added a bunch of permits and let it slide.
We all heard the same thing last year when FWP messed up the MSG drawing and added a bunch of permits and let it slide.
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Forkyfinder
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- Dec 13, 2023
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Desperately i want one of those types to win a goat/sheep tag and give an interview and say how dumb it is and they wont use it.
Could be me if i won... but it wont be
MThuntr
Well-known member
What if they get everyone excited about a goat tag and then the tag issued is only good in R7
Elky Welky
Well-known member
I made the same quip earlier, but the tag is the same as a supertag, so it will be statewide.What if they get everyone excited about a goat tag and then the tag issued is only good in R7
I see there is now a moose tag in 7, so you never know.What if they get everyone excited about a goat tag and then the tag issued is only good in R7
Elky Welky
Well-known member
Took the time to watch the Senate F&G hearing on this one:
No proponents were present. Marcus Strange with MWF did a good job expressing many of the concerns raised in this thread at the Senate F&G hearing ("unintended consequences" potential to take funding from existing supertag and draw programs, etc.). MSA testified online and asked what the purpose of the bill was. The answer given at the end of the hearing that the bill "was a good way to give back to Montana residents" and then he went on to defeat his own point by pointing out that the odds of drawing are still incredibly low.
Technical note postulated that there would be no change in supertag lottery funds raised with the incorporation of this law. The license bureau employee testified that 293,000 resident deer and elk tags were sold, and that more supertags chances are sold than that.
She also clarified that deer and elk tags come with the opportunity, so I misunderstood this earlier in the thread. To clarify: each of those licenses comes with a drawing chance, so you can purchase two chances.
So I was also incorrect about the draw odds, which are 1/292,000, or .000003%, not .000007%
No proponents were present. Marcus Strange with MWF did a good job expressing many of the concerns raised in this thread at the Senate F&G hearing ("unintended consequences" potential to take funding from existing supertag and draw programs, etc.). MSA testified online and asked what the purpose of the bill was. The answer given at the end of the hearing that the bill "was a good way to give back to Montana residents" and then he went on to defeat his own point by pointing out that the odds of drawing are still incredibly low.
Technical note postulated that there would be no change in supertag lottery funds raised with the incorporation of this law. The license bureau employee testified that 293,000 resident deer and elk tags were sold, and that more supertags chances are sold than that.
She also clarified that deer and elk tags come with the opportunity, so I misunderstood this earlier in the thread. To clarify: each of those licenses comes with a drawing chance, so you can purchase two chances.
So I was also incorrect about the draw odds, which are 1/292,000, or .000003%, not .000007%
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