Montana Preference Point Expiration MT HB637

[MITCHMO]

Why does Montana even still allow you to buy a preference point outside of the draw? I guess technically you can’t loose the point until the following year? So if you have zero points right now but want to hunt next year, just wait until this summer and buy a point right?

 

[WIbiggame]

WIbiggame , you know more than me on this . Scenario, my wife has 1 pp . I bought it last summer . We don’t want her getting a tag this year but also don’t wanna lose the point . If I apply for a deer combo for her and do not buy a point , so she will go in with 1 and most likely won’t draw , will she keep the 1 pp then ? Since she did apply …?

To the best of my understanding you would be correct as long as she applies with 1pp should be 0% draw and she will keep the point.

However you won't be able to buy a point for her this summer. So next year she could get one in the draw so have 2 next year.

I am not sure of the refund you get back and what you lose if you don't draw? Have never been unsuccessful.

Best of luck!

 

[WIbiggame]

Why does Montana even still allow you to buy a preference point outside of the draw? I guess technically you can’t loose the point until the following year? So if you have zero points right now but want to hunt next year, just wait until this summer and buy a point right?

In theory yes but guessing that 2pp will be 80% odds this year and probably be 50% +/- 10% next year. Your best bet is don't plan on MT as your primary and go in with 0pp and if you draw good if not oh well.

 

[BradA]

You could except you run a pretty high likelihood of getting a returned tag with 2pts and thus be the only one in your party with a tag and using your points anyway.

I thought all returned tags went into a separate draw or list? I applied for it last year and was like number 1,300 or something so high I would never actually get a tag since there was no where enough people going to return there tag

 

[WIbiggame]

I thought all returned tags went into a separate draw or list? I applied for it last year and was like number 1,300 or something so high I would never actually get a tag since there was no where enough people going to return there tag

That is the alternate list for tags that get returned after the draw.

Montana runs the draw in April. Person A draws their general tag and wants to hunt 380 so they go into the LE drawing. Person A doesn't draw 380 so they checked on their license that if unsuccessful in the LE draw they want to return their elk tag for a FULL refund.

This tag along with all others who didn't draw the LE and wanted to return the general go back into the drawing and FWP goes through the drawing again awarding these "returned" tags to people who didn't draw a general tag in the primary draw.

The list you signed up for is when someone draws a MT tags pays for it and for some reason decides they don't want to hunt and gets a % of their license fee back.

Edit: they also break up all group applications for these "returned" tags. So it's really messes with plans when your group is unsuccessful than 2 of the 3 or whatever number get a returned tag. Not a huge deal person who doesn't draw gets to call and pack. The thing that stinks is when you try and plan to hunt elk every fall someplace with a partner this puts you off point schedule and messes everything up for years. 1st world problems I know just needed to vent.

 

[BradA]

That is the alternate list for tags that get returned after the draw.

Montana runs the draw in April. Person A draws their general tag and wants to hunt 380 so they go into the LE drawing. Person A doesn't draw 380 so they checked on their license that if unsuccessful in the LE draw they want to return their elk tag for a FULL refund.

This tag along with all others who didn't draw the LE and wanted to return the general go back into the drawing and FWP goes through the drawing again awarding these "returned" tags to people who didn't draw a general tag in the primary draw.

The list you signed up for is when someone draws a MT tags pays for it and for some reason decides they don't want to hunt and gets a % of their license fee back.

Edit: they also break up all group applications for these "returned" tags. So it's really messes with plans when your group is unsuccessful than 2 of the 3 or whatever number get a returned tag. Not a huge deal person who doesn't draw gets to call and pack. The thing that stinks is when you try and plan to hunt elk every fall someplace with a partner this puts you off point schedule and messes everything up for years. 1st world problems I know just needed to vent.

Hey I appreciate that understanding, I thought I really knew the crazy montana general process but that was something I must have over looked or didn’t know.

 

[MNElkNut]

Sure is a good thing that Hank simplified things.

 

[Mallardsx2]

This will be my f’n luck …… won’t draw desired LE permit for which I have lots of bonus points , thus will lose my pp’s cuz I drew the bg combo , OR won’t draw the combo with 2 pp , thus won’t even be entered in the LE draw for the 3rd time in 4 years , then to top it off will probably be “awarded” someone’s returned tag and Lose my pp’s … great system

You and me both. I'm staying out of it until I have enough bonus points to basically guarantee a LE tag. By they I am sure they will have changed the system to screw me as well. Its a poorly though out system, thats for sure.

 

[brownbear932008]

You and me both. I'm staying out of it until I have enough bonus points to basically guarantee a LE tag. By they I am sure they will have changed the system to screw me as well. Its a poorly though out system, thats for sure.

Totally agree I'm done there until things get better. Not playing the favorites game and we won't even get into the over priced tags and fees as it's been beat to death.

 

[Eric Albus]

You and me both. I'm staying out of it until I have enough bonus points to basically guarantee a LE tag. By they I am sure they will have changed the system to screw me as well. Its a poorly though out system, thats for sure.

This can’t be done, your odds go up, but you’ll never ever be guaranteed an LE permit. Not even close.

 

[Eric Albus]

Sure is a good thing that Hank simplified things.

Hank had nothing to do with the insane system that we have to deal with.

The end.

 

[tjmurphy]

I apologize for restarting an old thread but the Montana PP/Draw system has me feeling like my IQ has dropped 50 points overnight. I have been through Gohunt, Randy's draw strategy videos, Montana Game and Fish website and all 7 pages of this thread. I am still unsure of how to proceed and am open to any offered feedback. My self and two friends try to have a draw strategy to hunt DIY annually (all non-residents) out west and rotate states. We are trying to add Montana at this point for Elk/Deer Combo in 2024. We have 0 PP now. The plan is we buy a PP this summer 22', don't apply in 23', buy PP summer 23', apply and buy PP in 24'. My understanding is we would have 3 PP and draw in 24'??? Thank you in advance.

 

[rmyoung1]

I apologize for restarting an old thread but the Montana PP/Draw system has me feeling like my IQ has dropped 50 points overnight. I have been through Gohunt, Randy's draw strategy videos, Montana Game and Fish website and all 7 pages of this thread. I am still unsure of how to proceed and am open to any offered feedback. My self and two friends try to have a draw strategy to hunt DIY annually (all non-residents) out west and rotate states. We are trying to add Montana at this point for Elk/Deer Combo in 2024. We have 0 PP now. The plan is we buy a PP this summer 22', don't apply in 23', buy PP summer 23', apply and buy PP in 24'. My understanding is we would have 3 PP and draw in 24'??? Thank you in advance.

As it now stands, you’re right.

 

[tjmurphy]

Thank you and agree on "as it stands now"

 

[WIbiggame]

I apologize for restarting an old thread but the Montana PP/Draw system has me feeling like my IQ has dropped 50 points overnight. I have been through Gohunt, Randy's draw strategy videos, Montana Game and Fish website and all 7 pages of this thread. I am still unsure of how to proceed and am open to any offered feedback. My self and two friends try to have a draw strategy to hunt DIY annually (all non-residents) out west and rotate states. We are trying to add Montana at this point for Elk/Deer Combo in 2024. We have 0 PP now. The plan is we buy a PP this summer 22', don't apply in 23', buy PP summer 23', apply and buy PP in 24'. My understanding is we would have 3 PP and draw in 24'??? Thank you in advance.

@rmyoung1 You are mistaken, if you don't apply in 23 you will lose your PP you need to apply in consecutive years. So by buying a point in 22 and not applying for a license you lose your PP even if you buy a preference you still lose the PP. Only way to hit 3pp is not draw.

 

[WIbiggame]

@tjmurphy I honestly wouldn't put MT on your list of places you want to "plan" on hunting with any sort idea of when you will draw. I will try and explain.
1) You have to apply for a license every year to keep your PP.
2) If you apply as a group and your group doesn't draw you guys will get broken up when the returned tags go back through. And they take your PP if you draw, so realistically 2 of you or 1 could draw a returned tag and lose your PP's while the others would than keep the points.


Just want you to have all the facts and I wouldn't ever "plan" on MT as part of an annual plan.

 

[madtom]

not applying for a license you lose your PP

I must be a child. Every time I see this worded like this I smirk.

 

[WIbiggame]

I must be a child. Every time I see this worded like this I smirk.

Never noticed it before but once you see it you can't un see it thanks for that

 

[LCH]

My initial interpretation of the wording was that you couldn't miss applying 2 years in a row, so at least apply every other year. Sure enough though, I applied in 2021 and was unsuccessful, did not apply in 2022 and lost my single preference point.

It seems like it would have been a whole lot simpler if Montana just said "apply every year or lose your points."

 

[Derek44]

@tjmurphy I honestly wouldn't put MT on your list of places you want to "plan" on hunting with any sort idea of when you will draw. I will try and explain.
1) You have to apply for a license every year to keep your PP.
2) If you apply as a group and your group doesn't draw you guys will get broken up when the returned tags go back through. And they take your PP if you draw, so realistically 2 of you or 1 could draw a returned tag and lose your PP's while the others would than keep the points.


Just want you to have all the facts and I wouldn't ever "plan" on MT as part of an annual plan.

The only discrepancy I see in your explanation here is that the alternate list for returned tags have zero bearing on your preference points. You can draw one of these and you still retain your accumulated points

You only lose your points if you draw, or if you don’t apply for a combo in consecutive years.