Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[Straight Arrow]

While I haven't been there for a while

This mule deer situation did not happen just last week. Many hunters have seen "monsters" awhile back. Not so much anymore and that's the point.

 

[longbow51]

This mule deer situation did not happen just last week. Many hunters have seen "montsters" awhile back. Not so much anymore and that's the point.

Got it; I'm a WT hunter. Sad about the mule deer.

 

[rogerthat]

This mule deer situation did not happen just last week. Many hunters have seen "montsters" awhile back. Not so much anymore and that's the point.

Exactly. I have heard the argument that because a monster was sighted that means current management is acceptable. Not trying to go down the big buck rabbit hole but in my mind healthy age distribution should be a goal.

I would leave it up to the bios what that age distribution should look like but an occasional anomaly such as a monster sighting doesn’t offset the fact that the age distribution is really out of sync in Montana imo. But I also know a mule deer buck really isn’t fully mature until that 6 or 7 year age class. They truly are a different magnificent animal at that age especially if they have ran the gauntlet their whole life. It would be okay to have a couple of those running around on public land each year. That’s a much different take than current management.

 

[406dn]

I think antlerradar points out a central reason for part of the problem. That is that, if allowed, most hunters will kill a nicer young buck, before they kill an older mediocre buck. We are self selecting to make inferior bucks more common.

I moved to Montana in 81 as a young man of 30. The first 10 years or so, I hunted in SE Montana quite a bit. While I never killed a large buck there, I saw quite a few. I stopped hunting down that way, more because of the advent of all of the outfitting, rather than the hunting had gone to 4ell.

For whatever reason FWP has largely left the seasons almost unchanged, for as long as I have lived in the state. It might have worked at first, but it is evident that it has damaged the resource. If I were king and could structure the seasons at my whim, the general season would allow for the taking a spike or fork horn buck on a general tag. The herd can produce that animal in good numbers. What the herd cannot do as robustly is produce large numbers of older males. The harvest of 4 point bucks in my tyranny would be by permit only.

There will not be a decent number of older bucks, if we do not help them survive to an older age.

 

[cgasner1]

You’re a wealth of knowledge Art. I wish FWP was open to listening to members of the public like you but they are not. This is an education campaign they are working on in response to all the “complainers” they encountered in the east. Unfortunately for them, there are people like yourself with vast knowledge that goes back multi decades that see right through the BS. I gave up discussing deer management with the bios last year after getting tired of hearing the same cherry picked talking points they have been pushing for decades that I have come to realize are false narratives just like their max antler development by 4.5 crap. Here is the real statistic that matters, fwp bios have closed off their minds to any science that doesn’t support current Montana deer management by year 2.5 in their career. That’s the real statistic that keeps kicking us when we are down.

One big problem we have is every once in awhile a guy speaks up like that and know what he’s talking about only to be drowned out by 20 other idiots in the room that are mad about not getting to bear hunt in that country. Wish I was joking about that but that was a complaint I heard in a meeting at fwp. The bow hunters filled the quota before rifle on bear and it wasn’t fair. As long as people like that show up in hordes we are screwed

 

[rogerthat]

One big problem we have is every once in awhile a guy speaks up like that and know what he’s talking about only to be drowned out by 20 other idiots in the room that are mad about not getting to bear hunt in that country. Wish I was joking about that but that was a complaint I heard in a meeting at fwp. The bow hunters filled the quota before rifle on bear and it wasn’t fair. As long as people like that show up in hordes we are screwed

Spot on. This is why I try to keep my points and thoughts very succinct or to myself mostly as when @antlerradar speaks fwp needs to listen very closely. He knows more about mule deer in eastern Montana than all the bios combined.

 

[antlerradar]

I think antlerradar points out a central reason for part of the problem. That is that, if allowed, most hunters will kill a nicer young buck, before they kill an older mediocre buck. We are self selecting to make inferior bucks more common.

I think about this often, It bothers me. The good thing is that much of antler size is contributed by the doe, but we are doing our level best to wipe out any positive contribution by the bucks. It can not be good long term.

 

[antlerradar]

Spot on. This is why I try to keep my points and thoughts very succinct or to myself mostly as when @antlerradar speaks fwp needs to listen very closely. He knows more about mule deer in eastern Montana than all the bios combined.

I am still learning.

 

[ismith]

How does CWD tie into MTFWP’s mule deer mismanagement? Is it intentional or incompetence?

 

[antlerradar]

How does CWD tie into MTFWP’s mule deer mismanagement? Is it intentional or incompetence?

FWP is going to use CWD to justify current management.

 

[BuckRut]

I think we have a little bit of a poaching problem or the FWP Really can't count. Not sure of the exact tag quotas but I would bet it was 70 buck tags and 50 doe tags. Those 120 tags somehow drew 1501 hunters to the unit.

License Year

Hunting District

Deer Species

Residency

Hunters

Days

Days per Hunter

Total Harvest

Bucks

Does

Fawns

Bow

Rifle

2021​

270​

md

SUM

1501​

12220​

8​

92​

70​

22​

0​

0​

92​

 

[cgasner1]

They utahed it in on that 50 tags so those hunter numbers actually seem a bit light

 

[YukonGold]

I just pulled it up. They don't differentiate those 1501 hunters between MD and WTD. So 1501 hunters includes WTD.

 

[BuckRut]

I just pulled it up. They don't differentiate those 1501 hunters between MD and WTD. So 1501 hunters includes WTD.

Thanks for catching that. I restricted my spreadsheet to just the mule deer numbers so that didn't jump out at me when I looked at it.

 

[DFS]

Unfortunately I believe we are being set up for the upcoming season setting. Stay the course no changes needed. “Can’t control the weather I’m sure things will improve.”

 

[antlerradar]

One big problem we have is every once in awhile a guy speaks up like that and know what he’s talking about only to be drowned out by 20 other idiots in the room that are mad about not getting to bear hunt in that country. Wish I was joking about that but that was a complaint I heard in a meeting at fwp. The bow hunters filled the quota before rifle on bear and it wasn’t fair. As long as people like that show up in hordes we are screwed

I would like to laugh, but instead I want to cry because I have been to those meetings where one guy goes off on a tangent and half the room chases that rabbit right through the plum patch.

 

[brockel]

I would like to laugh, but instead I want to cry because I have been to those meetings where one guy goes off on a tangent and half the room chases that rabbit right through the plum patch.

The last one where they played their management PowerPoint was the first one I’d been to that this didn’t happen. But there was also only a hand full of us in the room too

 

[brockel]

Talked to a friend who spent a week in the long pines of the Custer elk hunting and he seen 8 mule deer in a week

 

[DFS]

Mismanagement with the managers Monday.

 

[8andcounting]

The biggest variable in Montana is lead poison