Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement
- Thread starter rogerthat
- Start date
Explain away. I obviously need to be educated.
Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks - Region 7
Mule Deer Monday with the Manager All right, well it looks like we had some good guesses come through over the past week on ages of the mule featured in last Monday’s post. The closest guess would...
www.facebook.com
cgasner1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2016
- Messages
- 2,959
Has almost the same effect 3 horribly placed core-lokts will this fallMontana Fish, Wildlife & Parks - Region 7
Mule Deer Monday with the Manager All right, well it looks like we had some good guesses come through over the past week on ages of the mule featured in last Monday’s post. The closest guess would...
8andcounting
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2013
- Messages
- 3,401
I can’t believe I wasted 45 seconds reading that garbage
I can't see it as I don't have FB. Breakdown? mtmuley
SwaggyD
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2022
- Messages
- 1,688
Never!!!! #yugeneckroasts
A 2.5 year old forky and a raggedy 3.5 year old, which will “never get much more antler”. Not great.
rogerthat
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2015
- Messages
- 2,918
Sooooo….Let me summarize for all you dummies out there including myself, Montana doesn’t have big bucks. It’s not due to management. It’s genetics and the drought. Duh.
Next weeks lesson, we will go over why there are no mule deer does on public land in parts of eastern Montana. Hint: it’s not due to all the doe tags we shamelessly issued for decades. Stay tuned
ismith
Well-known member
The lack of mule deer in Montana is heartbreaking.
SwaggyD
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2022
- Messages
- 1,688
I haven’t killed a deer since 2019. I’m going antelope hunting this weekend and will definitely be looking to see what is around. When I looked 3 weeks ago scouting for antelope I saw zero mule deer, public or private. Will be interesting what I see Friday night.
antlerradar
Well-known member
"Also, by about 4.5 years of age a mule deer buck has reached almost the max amount of antler development that will be observed through out its life."
This falls some where between misleading and BS.
My antler collection contains dozens of examples where deer grew considerably after the age of four.
The two antlers in the picture are just one example. I believe that the antler on the left was from when the buck was at a minimum of four years old and he easily could have been five. The antler on the right is from at least two years later in life. The four year old antler scores 80 7/8 typical with a 6 3/8 inline for a total of 87 2/8 the older antler is 84 6/8 typical with 7 1/8 inline for a total of 91 7/8. Using the B&C scoring system this buck increased A little more than 5%. Five percent may not seam like that much but it doesn't tell the whole story. My picture doesn't show it well but, the antler on the right is much much bigger. The B&C scoring system gives more weight to tine length and less to mass. The antler on the left wights 1 3/4lb, the antler on the right is a half pound heavier. Now that increase is 28.5%. That is a big jump when it comes to antlers.
This falls some where between misleading and BS.
My antler collection contains dozens of examples where deer grew considerably after the age of four.
The two antlers in the picture are just one example. I believe that the antler on the left was from when the buck was at a minimum of four years old and he easily could have been five. The antler on the right is from at least two years later in life. The four year old antler scores 80 7/8 typical with a 6 3/8 inline for a total of 87 2/8 the older antler is 84 6/8 typical with 7 1/8 inline for a total of 91 7/8. Using the B&C scoring system this buck increased A little more than 5%. Five percent may not seam like that much but it doesn't tell the whole story. My picture doesn't show it well but, the antler on the right is much much bigger. The B&C scoring system gives more weight to tine length and less to mass. The antler on the left wights 1 3/4lb, the antler on the right is a half pound heavier. Now that increase is 28.5%. That is a big jump when it comes to antlers.
Last edited:
antlerradar
Well-known member
This may be what FWP is trying to show, but it is not my take. Clearly this buck is at the bottom when it comes to antler potential. I have long argued that the reason MT has a hard time growing top quality bucks is not because we shoot too many small bucks, but because we shoot nearly all the nice bucks when they are young. This buck is good at illustrating this. Montana with its long seasons during the rut and abundant freezer filler tags allows us to the luxury of being more selective with out the risk of eating tag soup. Even on public land this buck at age three is going to be passed by most hunters and on private land he has almost no chance of getting shot. On the other hand a buck with top potential that scores better than 160 at age three is going to be passed by almost no one. Put this buck even at age five with a two year old nice forked four point and the two year old is taking the bullet every time.
antlerradar
Well-known member
Fortunately I think for the most part the genetics are still here, getting a buck with top end potential to live to age three is the hard part.
Last edited:
antlerradar
Well-known member
Another example from my collection.
The antler on the left if unchewed is approximately 82 typical with 3 inches of cheaters, the antler on the left unchewed would be 87 with 6 inches of cheaters. The right antler is a minimum of a half inch better on every mass measurement and carries that mass in the points. This buck at the younger age is a fantastic buck that no one is passing today, but when he was shot in 1961 as an older buck he is one of the best deer ever shot in SE MT with a typical frame that nets over 200.
The antler on the left if unchewed is approximately 82 typical with 3 inches of cheaters, the antler on the left unchewed would be 87 with 6 inches of cheaters. The right antler is a minimum of a half inch better on every mass measurement and carries that mass in the points. This buck at the younger age is a fantastic buck that no one is passing today, but when he was shot in 1961 as an older buck he is one of the best deer ever shot in SE MT with a typical frame that nets over 200.
Last edited:
rogerthat
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2015
- Messages
- 2,918
You’re a wealth of knowledge Art. I wish FWP was open to listening to members of the public like you but they are not. This is an education campaign they are working on in response to all the “complainers” they encountered in the east. Unfortunately for them, there are people like yourself with vast knowledge that goes back multi decades that see right through the BS. I gave up discussing deer management with the bios last year after getting tired of hearing the same cherry picked talking points they have been pushing for decades that I have come to realize are false narratives just like their max antler development by 4.5 crap. Here is the real statistic that matters, fwp bios have closed off their minds to any science that doesn’t support current Montana deer management by year 2.5 in their career. That’s the real statistic that keeps kicking us when we are down.
longbow51
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2023
- Messages
- 1,051
While I haven't been there for a while, we used to hunt elk on the Sieben Ranch. The mulies were never open in block management; don't know if they outfitted them or not, but there were some true monsters. Lie right by the fences taunting us.
