Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[OpenCountry]

It’d be nice to at least have people put in for what district they will hunt with 100% draw odds for a year just to see the actual pressure East receives. It wouldn’t be pretty. It wouldn’t take away from the “opportunity” at the same time . Some direction of getting actual data would be nice.

 

[rogerthat]

Opportunity to do what? Go on a nature walk with a gun?

I like to use my bow on these nature “woundy” walks.

 

[rogerthat]

On a serious note, here is where we start.

Mandatory reporting and hunter satisfaction survey

No doe hunting on public lands.

See? you all keep your birthright

 

[Carnage2011]

According to an FWP biologist that I’ve talked to about this, any buck 2 years or older is considered adult. I have a ton of data from 4 different bio’s that send out their surveys and for the most part it’s criminal. In SW Montana we have a unit with buck to for ratio’s of 7:100 and of the observed bucks only one was greater than a 2 year old.

With that being said I believe that it is FWP’s belief that the people of Montana value the ability to have a tag every year more than better age class. I think they are probably right about that to a certain extent.

On Hunttalk there are a lot of people that want quality management and better age class. I don’t believe Hunttalk resembles the majority of Montanan’a.

 

[tjones]

One can't discount the increase in resident hunters over the past 25-30 years. Guys moving here for the hunting and fishing are taking their toll.

 

[Carnage2011]

One can't discount the increase in resident hunters over the past 25-30 years. Guys moving here for the hunting and fishing are taking their toll.

100% as well as technology, habitat changes, and hunter resources (gohunt and others).

 

[DFS]

At some point it’s going to have to be what the species needs not what hunters want.

 

[brockel]

There is alot of truth to this. Breaks deer hunting started to go to hell about the time that Cow elk tags started to be given out in good numbers.

Not in my slice of Montana. Very few elk and they are in pockets. But the mule deer have been declining over all of it

 

[8andcounting]

At some point it’s going to have to be what the species needs not what hunters want.

It will never get that bad in eyes of the FWP

 

[BuzzH]

It was the same story long before GG was in office. MT has litteraly went down hill for 25 years.

Maybe so, but the slope under GG on that downhill slide are akin to falling off a cliff.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

Serious question, does anyone have a clear understanding of why the MT FWP will not implement a mandatory harvest survey?

Seems very doable with the new phone app and e-tags, NO??

 

[DFS]

Maybe so, but the slope under GG on that downhill slide are akin to falling off a cliff.

How exactly has anything changed with deer hunting so far? Seems like business as usual.

 

[BuzzH]

How exactly has anything changed with deer hunting so far? Seems like business as usual.

Uh, maybe a crapload more residents, allowing every outfitted hunter to have a deer tag that wants one, appointing a lousy director, hamstringing the department, reassigning/firing biologists that want to make changes...for starters.

Here's a question for you, how has GG worked to improve anything?

In fairness though, he is living up to his promises that he would cater to the outfitters, rich out of state landowners, etc.

Its one thing to just do nothing, its another to mash the gas peddle to the floor on making things worse.

 

[Hunter4Life78]

My daughter's first buck was a mule deer taken November. We were watching a small group of does when he stepped out. We were shocked when we got up to him and saw he was in velvet still. When we rolled him over to field dress him I noticed that his "beans" appeared under developed. We stopped to eat on the way home and a gentleman told us that he had taken a larger buck still in velvet,made a great shoulder mount, and found the same thing. What he explained to us was that if a mule deer contracts blue tongue it will sterilize them and they won't lose their velvet where as in white tails he said it's almost always fatal the muleys can survive it. In my non biologist mind it makes sense that if a buck that has survived mother nature predation, hunting season, etc.and he were to contract this disease survive it he would be taken out of the gene pool but wouldn't ( I would think) effect the size of the "beans" if he had reached maturity and then contracted it, but it would make sense for "beans" to be underdeveloped if disease was contracted during early on in body development.
I've often wondered if any, how serious a role this has played in the mule deer decline. Maybe it's time to join the Mule Deer Foundation I don't know. What I do know is like I said last night I love hunting Mule Deer and to me they are a symbols of Montana. We need to figure something out.

 

[DFS]

The department has been doing nothing for 30 years or more. I’m not sure why you would expect them to do anything now hamstrung or not. What did the previous governor work on to make things better for deer hunting? Political BS can stay out of wildlife management as far as I’m concerned. New resident hunters were coming one way or another. I don’t disagree with what you are saying but to pin the blame solely on GG is being disingenuous.

 

[JLS]

Here's a question for you, how has GG worked to improve anything?

In fairness though, he is living up to his promises that he would cater to the outfitters, rich out of state landowners, etc.

Its one thing to just do nothing, its another to mash the gas peddle to the floor on making things worse.

He didn’t start the fire, but he’s sure pouring gas on it.

 

[huntin24/7]

Whether you think big changes or very small changes are needed in mule deer management in MT, I think we all can agree that we’re at a time where we can no longer have a general tag that’s valid for 5 weeks during the rut for over 90% of the state. There are still some places in the state that can support this, primarily due to units being mostly private, but we need to make changes in a lot of the state to the mule deer herd and as well as some of the units for whitetails out west from what I gather from guys in the know.

 

[BuzzH]

The department has been doing nothing for 30 years or more. I’m not sure why you would expect them to do anything now hamstrung or not. What did the previous governor work on to make things better for deer hunting? Political BS can stay out of wildlife management as far as I’m concerned. New resident hunters were coming one way or another. I don’t disagree with what you are saying but to pin the blame solely on GG is being disingenuous.

Change takes buy in from leadership, and when you have the exact opposite of buy-in from leadership, making things worse, certainly nothing is going to improve.

Believe what you want but the changes you're wanting, its going to have start at the top, just the way it is. That means electing the right person with the courage its going to take to reverse course.

As much as you want to keep political bs out of wildlife management, that's just divorcing yourself from reality.

 

[Hunter4Life78]

Does anybody think an either or system would work. You either hunt muley or whitetail. Or they are separate tags. That is something I've often wondered would come down through pipe sooner or later. There are several reasons for this coming into my mind but i love enjoyed the forum and really don't want to tip the canoe if I can help it.

 

[Hunter4Life78]

And if I had looked at another thread this has already been brought up. Sorry folks newbie mistake.