Irrelevant
Well-known member
I'm bs crazy, but not that crazy
Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement
- Thread starter rogerthat
- Start date
At the region 7 mule deer management meeting they shared a lot of studies to justify their management or lack there of. One of them was that the current harvest surveys are as accurate or more accurate than mandatory harvest surveys. They don’t want the data when it comes down to it imo. The problem is not going to be fixed with a change in harvest reporting.
brocksw
Well-known member
This may not be helpful, but in the chance that it is, here is the study ND did a couple years back on the subject of harvest surveys. Perhaps one has already been done for MT? If not, maybe something like this could be done to get a more complete picture of MT survey data and the confidence level in that data? Just spit balling.
Another on ND Hunter motivations and satisfaction. Seems relevant to the conversation, but perhaps I'm wrong.
Another on ND Hunter motivations and satisfaction. Seems relevant to the conversation, but perhaps I'm wrong.
Bambistew
Well-known member
An NGO needs to get the list of tag holders and send out their own survey. There has to be one in MT or even national that would be willing to do it.
You need a group like Resident Hunters of Alaska (RHAK) aka Resident Hunters with Planes. Either way a grassroots org willing to throw MTFWP under the bus. It's long over due.
You need a group like Resident Hunters of Alaska (RHAK) aka Resident Hunters with Planes. Either way a grassroots org willing to throw MTFWP under the bus. It's long over due.
I got the call a week ago and they didn’t even mention deer, they only asked about Antelope and turkeys, told them I didn’t fill my antelope doe tag because numbers seemed way down this year. Nothing will change next year
FREAK
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2022
- Messages
- 1,040
With the E-tag system, you think they'd be able to incorporate a quick survey after you validate the tag. What unit? How many points on each antler? How many days in the unit? Ect. Even if only 45% of hunters use the new E-tag system, that could be some really useful data/reporting.
Schaaf
Well-known member
HARD TO ARGUE WITH THIS KIND OF DATA FOLKS
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Probably me. I stand by the comment. They take a large enough sample that statistically the numbers should give a solid estimate of harvest (in most cases), but it is very 1980ish. Online survey would be a lot cheaper, easier and give better results. Seems like a no-brainer. Anyone not wanting it should be questioned.
It appears different surveyors are given different questions. It is hard for a single example to make a lot of sense. Like everyone, I don't really understand the surveyor's comment, other than they aren't trained very well.
If the question is can it be done, the answer is yes, see NM.
If the question is would MTFWP be able to do the same, only God and Greg can answer.
KB_
Well-known member
I got this call about a month ago. First question asked. Did you deer hunt this year, I said yes. She asked if I saw any wolves, I said yes while I was elk hunting. She said "I'm only asking about wolves while deer hunting" I said well I was deer hunting too. I'm Pretty sure the gals brain exploded right then. I then said I usually deer and elk hunt in the same areas, and I have seen and heard wolves in said area.
They are just trying to do their jobs gents give him some slack.
They are just trying to do their jobs gents give him some slack.
kwyeewyk
Well-known member
If they don't even ask where you hunted, how can they estimate anything other than state wide harvest, which is essentially useless in a state as large and diverse as Montana? A full census is always better than a sample, it's just usually cost prohibitive to achieve full census with most wildlife studies, but this is easily achievable with many working examples from multiple states. Charge $10 for no report before you can get another tag and it basically pays for itself as well. The thing about data is once you have it, you have it to use as needed, but once you miss the chance to collect it, it's gone forever. It's just the only responsible way for a game management agency to operate and it's inexcusable.
Mtnhunter1
Well-known member
@MTTW is correct again!
I just received "THE CALL"! Deer questions were a joke. 1) Did you hunt deer? 2) How many days did you hunt deer? 3) Did you harvest a deer? Antelope, not 700, questions mirror the deer. 700 antelope doe tag questions were a bit better with HDs hunted and days hunted per each HD.
But answer yes to seeing wolves and you'll be asked: What HD? What dates? How many wolfs seen? How many wolves seen each day? What drainages? What side of the drainages? Nearest named mountain closest to the wolf sightings? What elevation were the wolves seen on each day? About the only thing that wasn't asked was what color were the wolves!
Any doubt where MTFWP management focus rests?
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I’m not arguing that. All I know is that if they went to a survey for results, people would complain about the questions. FWP tries to do a lot of things in those phone calls. If they tried to match that in an online survey, it would still be confusing to individual respondents.
kwyeewyk
Well-known member
Have standard questions related to hunting/harvest, then add some optional questions for incidental observations etc.
i don't get the "have you seen a wolf" question.
who cares? what can that possibly accomplish?
that's not data.
70 people can drive by my yard and all of them see a dog. that doesn't mean there are 70 dogs. half of them might have thought it was an orange coyote for crying out loud, some dipshit might have thought it was young mt lion, some might have even though it was a wolf.
why tf are people watching my dog anyway? wait... wut?
who cares? what can that possibly accomplish?
that's not data.
70 people can drive by my yard and all of them see a dog. that doesn't mean there are 70 dogs. half of them might have thought it was an orange coyote for crying out loud, some dipshit might have thought it was young mt lion, some might have even though it was a wolf.
why tf are people watching my dog anyway? wait... wut?
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I have been asked the question a few times. Hard to get an accurate wolf count in almost any region. It's even hard to get an elk count with planes in most of region 1. I'm not sure that would change going online. For those things that are particularly sensitive, like wolves/bears etc, the responders may be less than honest.
is 70,000 cranky hunters going on record being angry about seeing a wolf enough to convince a judge to let em pound the chit.. errrrr... sorry, "manage", more of them?
colorado might wanna get some pointers on that strategy
No.
