Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[DFS]

Start printing the bumper stickers…
“Montana…We want your money, we just don’t want you”

Keep your money too. No reason to fund a game agency that doesn’t manage wildlife.

 

[antlerradar]

Or we can get rid of the combo for NR altogether

“we’re fixing our mule deer problem but you can come out in your same numbers and kill all our whitetail up”….



I don’t like that part

I don’t see how the dept wouldn’t make MORE money selling tags separately. Make them choose what they really want to come to Montana for…?

Everybody knows you get more money with “parts sold separately” just ask Mystery Ranch…. What backpack doesn’t come with a water bottle pouch….? People should have to choose what they want in a hunt here

We talked about splitting up the comb for this very reason when I was on the licensing and funding CAC for this very reason. When it was pointed out that doing so could potentially double the number of NR in the field, the idea died quickly.

 

[Gerald Martin]

We talked about splitting up the comb for this very reason when I was on the licensing and funding CAC for this very reason. When it was pointed out that doing so could potentially double the number of NR in the field, the idea died quickly.

Lots of folks forget that the 17,000 combo licenses actually equate to 34,000 tags. If it was separated that could mean an additional 17,000 NR hunters in the field at the same time.

 

[cgasner1]

Lots of folks forget that the 17,000 combo licenses actually equate to 34,000 tags. If it was separated that could mean an additional 17,000 NR hunters in the field at the same time.

Through out all this I have noticed it sure is easy for people to point out any negative and avoid wanting to talk about the positive. Those numbers are a pretty decent reason to keep a combo system

 

[SAJ-99]

Lots of folks forget that the 17,000 combo licenses actually equate to 34,000 tags. If it was separated that could mean an additional 17,000 NR hunters in the field at the same time.

Looking at it this way just shows that FWP has no idea where those hunters are or what they are doing and begs for it to be split and tracked. For example, every one of the combo's comes with an upland bird license but it is unrealistic to assume they are all in the field hunting grouse or pheasants. In addition, MT sells about 2 deer combos for every elk combo so the assumption that a split of big game would be 1:1 might be unrealistic (although mathematically possible).

In the current structure, it is impossible to know what incidental take of MD by elk hunters is, so the online harvest reporting is probably the most critical element to this whole thing. I will hold that it seems the Big Game combo is the sharing with NRs the traditional Montana value of being able to blast anything that walks past...for a discount even.

 

[mtmuley]

, so the online harvest reporting is probably the most critical element to this whole thing.

This. Sorry SAJ-99, I should have added more words. mtmuley

 

[Irrelevant]

I think Washington hunters stick out in regions 6 and 7 because you know that they have already driven across 3/4 of the state to get there.

We're not stupid. It's way harder to find a buck in 1-3 than to just drive another 6 hrs a spot bucks from every county road and 2 track. We're going to seek the best return on our investment. That comes east of the divide for deer

 

[Muleyassassin406]

View attachment 346286

Anyone else read this while they poop?

You can pm me for pins, since this is a MT trophy

Give it to the Washington they will gladly kill it and about 29 does after it!

 

[DFS]

Legend has it for every forky that’s killed a new way point is born on a Washington Facebook page.

In all seriousness probably best to keep this thing on track.

 

[Hunt West]

Lots of folks forget that the 17,000 combo licenses actually equate to 34,000 tags. If it was separated that could mean an additional 17,000 NR hunters in the field at the same time.

If the proposal were to pass there wouldn’t be 34k people at the same time since elk is in november ?

 

[antlerradar]

If the proposal were to pass there wouldn’t be 34k people at the same time since elk is in november ?

This is one of the most important parts of this proposal. People would not be able to take a deer as a consultation prize. I ran into a guy yesterday on some hard to get to BLM. We talked about how poor the deer hunting had become and he said he wasn't even going to go to SE MT for deer this year but I drew the bull tag so here I am. The law of Diminishing Returns does not work when you can hunt two spices at the same time.

 

[mukbowhunt]

Can someone please explain to me the orphan deer tags you were talking about when tags are given back and issued to the alternate list?

The alternate list requires you to sign up for one of 3 options. The big game combo, elk combo or deer combo. My understanding is that if a big game combo is turned back it is then issued to the big game combo list and not broken into two. I also thought that if an elk combo is turned back it goes to the elk combo alternate list.

So how does an orphan deer tag get created?

 

[mukbowhunt]

If the proposal were to pass there wouldn’t be 34k people at the same time since elk is in november ?

A big game combo is 17k elk tags and 17k deer tags. If only elk was open in November it would be 17k elk hunters. Not 34k.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Can someone please explain to me the orphan deer tags you were talking about when tags are given back and issued to the alternate list?

The alternate list requires you to sign up for one of 3 options. The big game combo, elk combo or deer combo. My understanding is that if a big game combo is turned back it is then issued to the big game combo list and not broken into two. I also thought that if an elk combo is turned back it goes to the elk combo alternate list.

So how does an orphan deer tag get created?

Until 2013 or 15, FWP was not allowed to resell the deer licenses that were returned under the big game combo. So in essence, those licenses that were originally purchased under the combo and then returned as the hunter wanted to chase only elk were being refunded but not sold for the original asking price. The bill passed with large majorities, since most groups felt like the additional revenue would lead to less increases for resident hunters and FWP felt that it would help them sustain ebbs & flows of revenue generation over budget expenses.

So - since then the returned deer license has been resold as a new B11 deer combination license, which is where the increase in NR antlered deer hunters comes from. It was an increase in hunter pressure w/o an increase in available licenses.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Until 2013 or 15, FWP was not allowed to resell the deer licenses that were returned under the big game combo. So in essence, those licenses that were originally purchased under the combo and then returned as the hunter wanted to chase only elk were being refunded but not sold for the original asking price. The bill passed with large majorities, since most groups felt like the additional revenue would lead to less increases for resident hunters and FWP felt that it would help them sustain ebbs & flows of revenue generation over budget expenses.

So - since then the returned deer license has been resold as a new B11 deer combination license, which is where the increase in NR antlered deer hunters comes from. It was an increase in hunter pressure w/o an increase in available licenses.

Thanks @Ben Lamb

 

[rmyoung1]

Aren’t the 17,000 NR combos shared between the Big Game Combo and Elk Combo? Theoretically, couldn’t the legislature help by turning all 17,000 NR licenses into Elk Combos only and price them at the current Big Game combo price (not much more than the elk combo anyway)? That strategy would result in a slight increase of funding (assuming they sell all 17,000, a virtual certainty) and then save all that pressure on the Nov mule deer killed as incidental take on a NR elk hunt.

I realize getting solutions out of the legislature is a steep hill to climb. This idea of the Big Game Combo is just an archaic concept, though. There’s no other correlation in other states. I’m a NR and this just feels like a piece of low-hanging fruit if there exists a few legislators who actually care about the mule deer resource.

Alright, @Ben Lamb slap my rose-colored glasses off my face and shoot holes in my optimism.

 

[mukbowhunt]

Until 2013 or 15, FWP was not allowed to resell the deer licenses that were returned under the big game combo. So in essence, those licenses that were originally purchased under the combo and then returned as the hunter wanted to chase only elk were being refunded but not sold for the original asking price. The bill passed with large majorities, since most groups felt like the additional revenue would lead to less increases for resident hunters and FWP felt that it would help them sustain ebbs & flows of revenue generation over budget expenses.

So - since then the returned deer license has been resold as a new B11 deer combination license, which is where the increase in NR antlered deer hunters comes from. It was an increase in hunter pressure w/o an increase in available licenses.

Thank you. I didn’t know that.

So if a nonresident draws the big game combo they can return only the deer tag? What % of returned big game combos is that? I know the big game combo alternate list only cleans out only about 800 - 900 per year.

 

[mukbowhunt]

Aren’t the 17,000 NR combos shared between the Big Game Combo and Elk Combo? Theoretically, couldn’t the legislature help by turning all 17,000 NR licenses into Elk Combos only and price them at the current Big Game combo price (not much more than the elk combo anyway)? That strategy would result in a slight increase of funding (assuming they sell all 17,000, a virtual certainty) and then save all that pressure on the Nov mule deer killed as incidental take on a NR elk hunt.

I realize getting solutions out of the legislature is a steep hill to climb. This idea of the Big Game Combo is just an archaic concept, though. There’s no other correlation in other states. I’m a NR and this just feels like a piece of low-hanging fruit if there exists a few legislators who actually care about the mule deer resource.

Alright, @Ben Lamb slap my rose-colored glasses off my face and shoot holes in my optimism.

I thought/think that the 17000 elk licenses are shared between the big game combo and elk combo but I haven’t confirmed. If so it isn’t 17000 deer licenses.

 

[rmyoung1]

I thought/think that the 17000 elk licenses are shared between the big game combo and elk combo but I haven’t confirmed. If so it isn’t 17000 deer licenses.

That’s correct but my point is that MT could save all of those mule deer bucks that are whacked by NRs holding Big Game Combo licenses by merging the current 17,000 Big Game or Elk Combo licenses into NR Elk Combos only. Charging the current Big Game Combo price for those new Elk Combos would guarantee no revenue loss (assuming the 17,000 still sell out, which seems likely).

 

[Ben Lamb]

Thank you. I didn’t know that.

So if a nonresident draws the big game combo they can return only the deer tag? What % of returned big game combos is that? I know the big game combo alternate list only cleans out only about 800 - 900 per year.

You can turn your elk in as well for a refund, then that can get resold as an elk combo.