Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[Nick87]

You can't please everybody. Some folks would bitch if you handed them $100 bill that it was wrinkled.

 

[8andcounting]

My hope is that we come up something workable to stave off LE permits for mule deer bucks for a few years.

What if LE is what it’s going to take to make for healthier mule deer numbers and better quality bucks ? I’m not saying it’s the only way but I think it should get a serious look . Maybe all it would take is 5 years LE then go back to general with maybe a pick your region type deal .

 

[cgasner1]

What if LE is what it’s going to take to make for healthier mule deer numbers and better quality bucks ? I’m not saying it’s the only way but I think it should get a serious look . Maybe all it would take is 5 years LE then go back to general with maybe a pick your region type deal .

Then when people realize they can’t draw rags that’s an entire different fight. Or the pressure is pushed over to white tails which could be bad if it’s enough pressure

 

[Carnage2011]

What if LE is what it’s going to take to make for healthier mule deer numbers and better quality bucks ? I’m not saying it’s the only way but I think it should get a serious look . Maybe all it would take is 5 years LE then go back to general with maybe a pick your region type deal .

I can’t think of a single unit that went LE and then back to general. Other than one unit that has high prevalence of cwd and it took one year for it to go right back to garbage.

 

[SAJ-99]

I can’t think of a single unit that went LE and then back to general. Other than one unit that has high prevalence of cwd and it took one year for it to go right back to garbage.

NR should start buying bonus points now.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree with essentially everything you mentioned and I didn’t see anyone else acknowledge your points so I wanted to emphasize them. To your first point, I think the splitting of the Deer/Elk seasons into different months will increase hunter days afield, which is counter to one of the stated goals of the proposal.

For your second point, it is crazy to me that the structure would have rifle hunters running around everywhere during October chasing mule deer and pushing elk off of public before a November rifle season. That will have a huge negative impact on elk hunting success rates. Then we will have a 1000 plus post thread on elk hunting opportunity mismanagement and be opining about the good old days.

It boggles my mind that if the proposed changes go through, there would be zero bull elk hunting in October. That is one of the best months to experience a bull elk hunt for rifle and MT would just be skipping over it to offer a worse experience in November. I don’t care about mule deer enough to get behind that approach.

Here would be my recommended season dates:

Basic Season Structure:
September 1st - September 30th: Archery for whitetail, mule deer and elk

October 1 - October 10: Traditional Muzzleloader Season general elk

October 1 - October 31: Antlered Mule Deer. Doe harvest by permit only

October 20 - November 30: General Whitetail and Elk season. Liberal cow seasons on private land, permitted/licensed on public with very tight limitations to reduce hunter pressure.

December 10-25: Additional Cow only season.

I think it would be okay to have elk/deer hunters in the field at the same time. Colorado has been doing that for decades so I don’t buy the argument that you need to decouple those species to save deer.

Holy shit, you're worrying about mule deer hunters "pushing elk" during the month of October then propose that garbage you just did?

One of the best things Wyoming does is to not overlap elk and deer seasons. Not hunting Mule deer in the rut is another good thing.

The season structure where I hunt elk here is month of Sept archery, October 1-7,10,14 rifle deer, depending on population of deer, October 15-31 rifle general elk.

The deer hunting prior to elk does not push elk around in any significant way, that's all bullshit.

What keeps elk on public is not targeting elk for 2 weeks in October, either by bowhunters or rifle hunters.

Instead of guessing in pretend world, why not ask people that have experience with seasons damn near identical to what's being proposed what they see?

Also, there would be barely any mule deer hunting going on in October in most of western Montana in October. Mule deer numbers are so crappy within 100 miles of Missoula, there wouldn't be enough hunters to push anything.

What isn't working is 12 weeks of nonstop pressure, which your proposal doesn't address. You're rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic.

True to form, you're the guy wanting it all, while sacrificing nothing. Hunt mule deer if you want to be out in October. Hunt pronghorn, bird hunt, fish in October, it's awesome fishing. Not like you have to stay home pouting.

The proposal that group put together is solid.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I agree with essentially everything you mentioned and I didn’t see anyone else acknowledge your points so I wanted to emphasize them. To your first point, I think the splitting of the Deer/Elk seasons into different months will increase hunter days afield, which is counter to one of the stated goals of the proposal.

For your second point, it is crazy to me that the structure would have rifle hunters running around everywhere during October chasing mule deer and pushing elk off of public before a November rifle season. That will have a huge negative impact on elk hunting success rates. Then we will have a 1000 plus post thread on elk hunting opportunity mismanagement and be opining about the good old days.

It boggles my mind that if the proposed changes go through, there would be zero bull elk hunting in October. That is one of the best months to experience a bull elk hunt for rifle and MT would just be skipping over it to offer a worse experience in November. I don’t care about mule deer enough to get behind that approach.

Here would be my recommended season dates:

Basic Season Structure:
September 1st - September 30th: Archery for whitetail, mule deer and elk

October 1 - October 10: Traditional Muzzleloader Season general elk

October 1 - October 31: Antlered Mule Deer. Doe harvest by permit only

October 20 - November 30: General Whitetail and Elk season. Liberal cow seasons on private land, permitted/licensed on public with very tight limitations to reduce hunter pressure.

December 10-25: Additional Cow only season.

I think it would be okay to have elk/deer hunters in the field at the same time. Colorado has been doing that for decades so I don’t buy the argument that you need to decouple those species to save deer.

I dont like muzzleloader when elk are rutting...

 

[huntin24/7]

Realistically, for those concerned about losing archery time for deer, you could move the start of the archery season a week or even two back into august. Other states do it. Bow hunters could get a week or two before upland bird hunting pressure starts as a bonus as well. That could allow for closing the season a bit earlier and having somewhat of a break before rifle too.

 

[8andcounting]

NR should start buying bonus points now.

If you think about the FWP is gonna limit NR below the 17,000 cap your crazy . Too much $ . NR tag numbers ain’t changing Until they go unsold . Maybe not even then

 

[Flatbrimmer]

That said, it wouldn’t be during the rut, so less bucks should be killed, right?

apparently not, because all these guys said they can find BIG bucks in September and October before the rut….

 

[BuzzH]

Realistically, for those concerned about losing archery time for deer, you could move the start of the archery season a week or even two back into august. Other states do it. Bow hunters could get a week or two before upland bird hunting pressure starts as a bonus as well. That could allow for closing the season a bit earlier and having somewhat of a break before rifle too.

Who says you can't archery hunt during the general deer seasons?

I've seen a few hard core archery guys hunting both elk and deer during general season. The way they hunt deer isn't any different during the general season, in particular tree stand whitetails.

It's not like their archery equipment turns to dust October 1.

Archery hunters have the most opportunity of any hunter out there. Not inclined to give them anything more.

 

[Schaaf]

apparently not, because all these guys said they can find BIG bucks in September and October before the rut….

If you’re someone that spends a lot of time in the summer scouting. An individual buck is far easier to kill in the summer/late summer range when he’s by himself or in a small bachelor group. You’ll obviously see more bucks moving around during the rut but if I’m after one buck, I’d much rather get him in September or October than let him go to the rut. Too many variables come into play at that point.

 

[Gerald Martin]

A ten day or two week early October OTC muzzle loader hunt for bull elk is something that I would fight tooth and nail against.

Bull elk on general unit publicly accessible land are already being overexploited with the current structure.

Replacing the last two weeks of archery with a more efficient weapon at the tail end of the elk rut would be devastating for bulls.

Muzzle loader hunters got to carve out a niche for their own dedicated season legislatively when they took it to to Helena and bypassed the normal season setting process that happens when a season is under FWP Commission authority.

Our proposal also includes the intent of using legislation to bring that hunt under FWP Commission rule making authority.

The intent is to leave the current muzzle loader season as is. Any movements to get it earlier into October are going to cause a huge fight between user groups and is going to be harmful to the resource.

Early October muzzle loader season is a nonstarter.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

If you’re someone that spends a lot of time in the summer scouting. An individual buck is far easier to kill in the summer/late summer range when he’s by himself or in a small bachelor group. You’ll obviously see more bucks moving around during the rut but if I’m after one buck, I’d much rather get him in September or October than let him go to the rut. Too many variables come into play at that point.

Respectfully disagree, my man. But then again, I don’t believe the mule deer migrate too awful far in the area I’d be hunting..

What am I saying? I won’t be hunting mule deer anywhere, anyway…. If yall wanted to make the whitetail ALL limited entry draws too, then I’d be grabbing the torch and pitchfork

In all seriousness, in spite of the fact I don’t care to hunt the mule deer, (because they don’t get like the “dirty dozen” in the bathroom art at the Land of Magic) I’m very intrigued by the proposal of mule deer specifically and I hope when my kids are grown— there WILL be “dirty dozen” bucks out there to be hunted. I don’t even have deer bonus points! I better start saving them if this is gonna go through, so I may have enough when the bucks are mature

 

[Flatbrimmer]

 

[Mountain Man]

A ten day or two week early October OTC muzzle loader hunt for bull elk is something that I would fight tooth and nail against.

Bull elk on general unit publicly accessible land are already being overexploited with the current structure.

Replacing the last two weeks of archery with a more efficient weapon at the tail end of the elk rut would be devastating for bulls.

Muzzle loader hunters got to carve out a niche for their own dedicated season legislatively when they took it to to Helena and bypassed the normal season setting process that happens when a season is under FWP Commission authority.

Our proposal also includes the intent of using legislation to bring that hunt under FWP Commission rule making authority.

The intent is to leave the current muzzle loader season as is. Any movements to get it earlier into October are going to cause a huge fight between user groups and is going to be harmful to the resource.

Early October muzzle loader season is a nonstarter.

Well then, how about October 20th to 30th? That strips away your argument that bulls will be in the rut. Why shouldn’t muzzleloaders have an opportunity before rifle hunters? The December dates are quite odd. I admit that I don’t know the history of why that came to be, but it is very strange timing.

 

[huntin24/7]

Who says you can't archery hunt during the general deer seasons?

I've seen a few hard core archery guys hunting both elk and deer during general season. The way they hunt deer isn't any different during the general season, in particular tree stand whitetails.

It's not like their archery equipment turns to dust October 1.

Archery hunters have the most opportunity of any hunter out there. Not inclined to give them anything more.

I agree with you. I’m not trying to make more opportunity for bow hunters. There’s plenty. Just trying to come up with ideas to spread out pressure and make season structure changes work. Maybe it’s a dumb idea. Was just a thought.

 

[mtmuley]

Well then, how about October 20th to 30th? That strips away your argument that bulls will be in the rut. Why shouldn’t muzzleloaders have an opportunity before rifle hunters? The December dates are quite odd. I admit that I don’t know the history of why that came to be, but it is very strange timing.

In order to make any changes, hunters will have to throw personal agendas out the window. I admit the current season structure is really convenient for me. But not sustainable for deer and elk. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

I agree with you. I’m not trying to make more opportunity for bow hunters. There’s plenty. Just trying to come up with ideas to spread out pressure and make season structure changes work. Maybe it’s a dumb idea. Was just a thought.

Its not a horrible idea, but I just think a month to archery hunt elk and deer, and then continue to archery hunt the general seasons is more than generous. Better than choose your weapon.

 

[BuzzH]

Well then, how about October 20th to 30th? That strips away your argument that bulls will be in the rut. Why shouldn’t muzzleloaders have an opportunity before rifle hunters? The December dates are quite odd. I admit that I don’t know the history of why that came to be, but it is very strange timing.

Why shouldn't rifle hunters get a week in mid September for bull elk? Why do archery hunters always get first crack at everything?

The December ml season was because the protected/privileged class in Montana (archery hunters) threw a fit.

Best thing imo, would be to shit can the muzzleloader season completely.