Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[cgasner1]

Why shouldn't rifle hunters get a week in mid September for bull elk? Why do archery hunters always get first crack at everything?

The December ml season was because the protected/privileged class in Montana (archery hunters) threw a fit.

Best thing imo, would be to shit can the muzzleloader season completely.

I would love to see the muzzy season as all le to help spread pressure around but it creates a entire different issue of how many tags do you issue for what

 

[huntin24/7]

Its not a horrible idea, but I just think a month to archery hunt elk and deer, and then continue to archery hunt the general seasons is more than generous. Better than choose your weapon.

I would honestly be 100% ok with the season structures the group proposed along with having to choose archery or rifle only.

 

[cgasner1]

I would honestly be 100% ok with the season structures the group proposed along with having to choose archery or rifle only.

Then which group gets the add on for muzzy season?

 

[Nick87]

Respectfully disagree, my man

Which part exactly?

 

[Gerald Martin]

After reading some opinions on choosing Regions for mule deer I am starting to change my mind in favor of that. What would people think of choosing your mule deer region, but having the same tag be valid for whitetail in any general area? I know there’s discussion about choosing one of the species but for what reason? If some mule deer seasons stopped covering the rut people could still have their thanksgiving hunt, just for whitetails.

There’s a couple of problems with allowing folks to hunt mule/whitetail in October in a single region and then any region whitetail through November.

First is that would simply be an expansion of length of season without splitting hunters into smaller groups for each season.

Next problem is that even whitetails can face too much pressure. We are trying to decrease pressure on all species as a whole not just concentrate the same amount of pressure on one species at a time.


Two components of our proposal that I believe are essential to enact together for there to be a positive effect are picking your region combined with picking your species/season.

That allows the same overall amount of hunters in a given year to be spread out across a longer time frame and into different regions.

It preserves a lot of current opportunities that hunters enjoy, OTC tags and liberal seasons while lowering the length of time individual areas and species experience the most intense pressure. It also moves the most intense pressure to less vulnerable time frames by not including the rut for mule deer.

IMO, our proposal can also benefit elk bull/cow ratios by pushing the beginning of general elk back to the first of November. There’s a ton of raghorn bulls still hanging with the cows in the last week of October hoping for a little bit of action. They get hammered during the first week before they break off the herds.

 

[peterk1234]

I would honestly be 100% ok with the season structures the group proposed along with having to choose archery or rifle only.

What does choosing have to do with health of a herd? You tag out, then you tag out. It's not like you get to kill twice as many animals because you use both methods. Am I missing something here?

 

[cgasner1]

What does choosing have to do with health of a herd? You tag out, then you tag out. It's not like you get to kill twice as many animals because you use both methods. Am I missing something here?

Your season is cut in half to help spread pressure

 

[huntin24/7]

What does choosing have to do with health of a herd? You tag out, then you tag out. It's not like you get to kill twice as many animals because you use both methods. Am I missing something here?

It spreads out pressure at least to some degree. Also, if you have more archery only guys, there should be less deer being taken(archery success rates are generally much lower) while still providing ample hunting opportunity for everyone.

 

[Carnage2011]

If you think about the FWP is gonna limit NR below the 17,000 cap your crazy . Too much $ . NR tag numbers ain’t changing Until they go unsold . Maybe not even then

If we went full LE non residents would be capped at 10% of each units. That would mean you’d likely have less than 17,000.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Well then, how about October 20th to 30th? That strips away your argument that bulls will be in the rut. Why shouldn’t muzzleloaders have an opportunity before rifle hunters? The December dates are quite odd. I admit that I don’t know the history of why that came to be, but it is very strange timing.

Muzzleloader hunters have always had a minimum of five weeks to hunt in MT.

The way this hunt came to be is that a Montana Legislator who happened to want an additional opportunity for himself and other muzzleloader hunters to have their own dedicated season took it directly to the MT Legislature and got enough support among other lawmakers to pass it directly into law. Part of their deal making to get it passed was putting it at the tail end of the season.


As far as why shouldn’t muzzleloader hunters have a first chance before rifle hunters? I don’t know. Why shouldn’t rock throwers have first chance before spear and atlatl hunters and then bow hunters? Why shouldn’t crossbow hunters get a chance before muzzleloader hunters and then rifle hunters?
I want to hunt elk and deer at night with thermal imaging drones and missiles. (Sarcasm). Can I have my own season as well after everyone else?

At what point do we recognize that a finite resource cannot thrive in the face of advancing technology and expanding exploitation?

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Which part exactly?

Well, like I mentioned, I don’t think they travel too far in my area. I just feel like if you find the does in that area, he’s close. And it might take until the last day of season, the THICK or the rut, right at dark even, to see that target deer. But the rut makes them stoned with lust and we all like to hunt the rut for EVERY species. Bear, elk, fish even!! To cut it off from even archery, sounds crazy. But I understand why! You folks won’t get the same aggression from me that you got from FoodIsMemories a few years ago… I do apologize and I appreciate the hard working men and women that make this their lives work so that my grandkids can still enjoy public lands and see these animals healthy and abundant

 

[Mountain Man]

At what point do we recognize that a finite resource cannot thrive in the face of advancing technology and expanding exploitation?

How is a flintlock or caplock muzzleloader advanced technology that will exploit elk herds? It was advanced technology in the 1700s-1850s, not so much in 2024.

I get that you are protecting your rice bowl of rifle hunting season so you have animosity towards muzzleloader hunters. I think it is disingenuous though to claim that traditional muzzleloaders will ruin elk hunting in MT if the season gets moved prior to general rifle. Nearly every other state has muzzleloader season before rifle.

 

[8andcounting]

If we went full LE non residents would be capped at 10% of each units. That would mean you’d likely have less than 17,000.

Would be fine by me but FWP won’t do that . I’d be shocked

 

[cgasner1]

How is a flintlock or caplock muzzleloader advanced technology that will exploit elk herds? It was advanced technology in the 1700s-1850s, not so much in 2024.

I get that you are protecting your rice bowl of rifle hunting season so you have animosity towards muzzleloader hunters. I think it is disingenuous though to claim that traditional muzzleloaders will ruin elk hunting in MT if the season gets moved prior to general rifle. Nearly every other state has muzzleloader season before rifle.

So cutting people loose with a weapon that has the potential to shoot 3x farther than a bow won’t have any issues

 

[BuzzH]

How is a flintlock or caplock muzzleloader advanced technology that will exploit elk herds? It was advanced technology in the 1700s-1850s, not so much in 2024.

I get that you are protecting your rice bowl of rifle hunting season so you have animosity towards muzzleloader hunters. I think it is disingenuous though to claim that traditional muzzleloaders will ruin elk hunting in MT if the season gets moved prior to general rifle. Nearly every other state has muzzleloader season before rifle.

I don't think the idea is to make Montana like every other state, many of which are have the exact same issues, if not worse issues.

I still think canning the ml hunt is the best idea. No reason for it.

 

[Mountain Man]

So cutting people loose with a weapon that has the potential to shoot 3x farther than a bow won’t have any issues

As someone mentioned earlier, once you punch your tag you punch your tag. Until method of take is restricted to a single choice, it doesn’t matter if someone shoots their bull with a bow, muzzleloader, or rifle, it is still just one bull.

 

[mtmuley]

As someone mentioned earlier, once you punch your tag you punch your tag. Until method of take is restricted to a single choice, it doesn’t matter if someone shoots their bull with a bow, muzzleloader, or rifle, it is still just one bull.

If muzzleloaders are to have their own season ( excepting the unnecessary one we have now), it is going to require archery hunters or rifle hunters to give up parts of their season. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

How is a flintlock or caplock muzzleloader advanced technology that will exploit elk herds? It was advanced technology in the 1700s-1850s, not so much in 2024.

I get that you are protecting your rice bowl of rifle hunting season so you have animosity towards muzzleloader hunters. I think it is disingenuous though to claim that traditional muzzleloaders will ruin elk hunting in MT if the season gets moved prior to general rifle. Nearly every other state has muzzleloader season before rifle.

I think it's more than a rice bowl they're trying to protect, it's trying to protect the resource from getting pounded flat.

 

[Doublecluck]

How is a flintlock or caplock muzzleloader advanced technology that will exploit elk herds? It was advanced technology in the 1700s-1850s, not so much in 2024.

I get that you are protecting your rice bowl of rifle hunting season so you have animosity towards muzzleloader hunters. I think it is disingenuous though to claim that traditional muzzleloaders will ruin elk hunting in MT if the season gets moved prior to general rifle. Nearly every other state has muzzleloader season before rifle.

I’m bored of killing elk on public land with rifles. It’s too easy, I’ll kill em if the seasons a week or 6. I have no interest in lobbing round balls 200 yards at winter range bulls. But I would give up my general rifle tag to call in and shoot a quality bull with a smoke pole at 20 yards in the timber. Even if it was LE short season and could only do it every few years. And I didn’t even own a ML till 6 months ago

 

[Flatbrimmer]

I’m bored of killing elk on public land with rifles. It’s too easy, I’ll kill em if the seasons a week or 6. I have no interest in lobbing round balls 200 yards at winter range bulls. But I would give up my general rifle tag to call in and shoot a quality bull with a smoke pole at 20 yards in the timber. Even if it was LE short season and could only do it every few years.

Too easy??