Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[Mountain Man]

It’s easy to write up without people that have issues with your season structure. Muzzy season is where it is due to how the law was written so you can’t move it to that time of year

Sure you can. All you have to do is get the law changed.

 

[cgasner1]

Sure you can. All you have to do is get the law changed.

Like I said before this wasn’t my dream season mine looked a lot more like yours. If you can get out in front of us and get it done I won’t stand in your way

 

[antlerradar]

I guess what I was trying to say is that I fully support removing rut hunting mule deer under a general tag, but it would be great if a family who can only take one week off a year to go hunting together could hunt both elk and mule deer that last week of October. Would that continue the decimation of the deer herds?

We discussed this. Biggest concern was that we would cause a hunter concentration issue similar to what the rut does currently.

 

[Mountain Man]

It seems you don't accept the gravity of the mule deer situation across Montana. Presently Colorado is much different from Montana with regard to mule deer. The reality is that it will take drastic changes to improve Montana's issues. Then there will be the opportunity to go back to hunting elk with a deer tag in your pocket as a secondary plan.

When you are making changes to programs it is better to alter one variable at a time, especially if it is a significant change. Moving mule deer hunting away from the rut is a significant change, and I fully support that.

How do you know that the mule deer population would continue to decline if the elk rifle season were to overlap for one week in October? The answer is that you don’t. You are going to an extreme position without knowing what the impact will be for removing the rut hunt.

 

[Mountain Man]

Like I said before this wasn’t my dream season mine looked a lot more like yours. If you can get out in front of us and get it done I won’t stand in your way

Fair enough. What I’m getting at though is that there will need to be legislative changes as part of this effort. Why not roll in this proposed change to the muzzleloader season (October 1-10) into that same effort? Is it too much to layer on with everything else at one time?

To me, this seems like the perfect time to move the muzzleloader season at the same time you are changing all the other seasons after decades of the same structure.

 

[Mountain Man]

We discussed this. Biggest concern was that we would cause a hunter concentration issue similar to what the rut does currently.

I agree that this overlap would cause hunter concentration for people like me with limited vacation time. That said, it wouldn’t be during the rut, so less bucks should be killed, right?

I also think that you would have others avoid this week if their schedules can accommodate. People who would rather split up their time to avoid the crowds of that week.

 

[HappyCamper]

After reading some opinions on choosing Regions for mule deer I am starting to change my mind in favor of that. What would people think of choosing your mule deer region, but having the same tag be valid for whitetail in any general area? I know there’s discussion about choosing one of the species but for what reason? If some mule deer seasons stopped covering the rut people could still have their thanksgiving hunt, just for whitetails.

 

[Hunt West]

May 6-8. I think it is posted on FWP's web sight.

Is that the survey where the no answers were added into the satisfied percentage? Bad move on FWP's part.

I don’t recall whether or not the no answers were being lumped into the satisfied percentage. Crappy if it was. I did a brief search and found a survey done last season. I don’t think this is the one I recall reading but the results appear similar.

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/conservation/deer/mule-deer-resident-deer-hunter-survey-2023.pdf

 

[cgasner1]

Fair enough. What I’m getting at though is that there will need to be legislative changes as part of this effort. Why not roll in this proposed change to the muzzleloader season (October 1-10) into that same effort? Is it too much to layer on with everything else at one time?

Also it’s different with the group idk how else to explain it. I brought up almost the exact same season dates and we had a conversation about it. With a general elk tag the group was concerned about the effect of having side hammers being used on rutting elk

 

[bigsky2]

Fair enough. What I’m getting at though is that there will need to be legislative changes as part of this effort. Why not roll in this proposed change to the muzzleloader season (October 1-10) into that same effort? Is it too much to layer on with everything else at one time?

To me, this seems like the perfect time to move the muzzleloader season at the same time you are changing all the other seasons after decades of the same structure.

The first legislative priority in the document would be to change the statute to give the commission flexibility in setting the muzzleloader season dates.

 

[mmarshall173]

So once they realize someone else has already pounded the piss out of an area the move into another to do the same? That seems to help the resources. It all has a cause and effect you guys may end up shooting bucks you wouldn’t have out of 6 because it’s the only place you can hunt. Or hear me out you let one walk. Another though on it is deer are more of a challenge to hunt in October also due to weather they aren’t up eating all day due to blue sky days.

You're not understanding, which is fine, you're obviously biased. We'll just drop the over pressure concerns and I'll take it up with FWP directly.

I'm not against eating a tag at all. Done it before and I'm sure I'll do it again. However, that's not the norm in MT. You're never going to convince enough hunters to eat their tags if they don't find a mature animal to make any significant difference.

 

[Mountain Man]

Also it’s different with the group idk how else to explain it. I brought up almost the exact same season dates and we had a conversation about it. With a general elk tag the group was concerned about the effect of having side hammers being used on rutting elk

Sounds like you and me are of like minds. How about October 5-15th then to move further away from the rut? How much more impactful are traditional muzzleloaders over archery anymore anyways?

 

[cgasner1]

Sounds like you and me are of like minds. How about October 5-15th then to move further away from the rut? How much more impactful are traditional muzzleloaders over archery anymore anyways?

I’ll shoot a bull at 150 yards with my side hammer moving laws and doing other things makes it hard to build a structure around hoping to get a law changed. Someone throws big enough fit and you loose it all.

 

[cgasner1]

You're not understanding, which is fine, you're obviously biased. We'll just drop the over pressure concerns and I'll take it up with FWP directly.

I'm not against eating a tag at all. Done it before and I'm sure I'll do it again. However, that's not the norm in MT. You're never going to convince enough hunters to eat their tags if they don't find a mature animal to make any significant difference.

What am I not understanding? You guys hunt an area that’s been just taken a beating for last 10 years and can’t find a good buck. Then you go jump into a different unit and kill some taking the resources out of that area. I get eating a tag isn’t normal for mt and never will be. I didn’t go into this trying to save every forked horn on the landscape. I got into it so that people will stop taking one as a participation trophy on Black Friday

 

[MTGomer]

If there’s a position against the proposal based on something more valid than selfishness and not caring about the deer herd, I haven’t heard it.
People just want to kill shit in the rut.

 

[Carnage2011]

Thanks for injecting a cold dose of reality into my optimism.

I do think that with the state of Mule deer in Montana you guys can actually get some good change implemented. You also are operating under a different Director. I don’t know what Dustin’s stance is on most of these things. Maybe he’s hearing enough negativity regarding Mule deer that he will make some change.

 

[Nameless Range]

If there’s a position against the proposal based on something more valid than selfishness and not caring about the deer herd, I haven’t heard it.
People just want to kill shit in the rut.

I have not heard very many quality arguments against the components of the proposal as a whole. That said Sometimes I wonder how relevant logic is.

Most of the arguments I have read in opposition have to do with losing a week of October archery, or are just naked weirdness about any possible change at all. Also, there is a hell of a lot of consternation about nonresident Hunter numbers. I don’t view the latter as a bad thing, but something separate from this proposal.

On The Facebook, of course, there are those who in hyperbole make all sorts of claims about this proposal and those who came up with it, but I do see people who I don’t know coming out of the woodwork in support . That’s a good sign from my perspective.

Doesn’t really speak to how realistic it is to implement any of this, but conversations are changing for sure

 

[DFS]

I have not heard very many quality arguments against the components of the proposal as a whole. That said Sometimes I wonder how relevant logic is.

Most of the arguments I have read in opposition have to do with losing a week of October archery, or are just naked weirdness about any possible change at all. Also, there is a hell of a lot of consternation about nonresident Hunter numbers. I don’t view the latter as a bad thing, but something separate from this proposal.

On The Facebook, of course, there are those who in hyperbole make all sorts of claims about this proposal and those who came up with it, but I do see people who I don’t know coming out of the woodwork in support . That’s a good sign from my perspective.

Doesn’t really speak to how realistic it is to implement any of this, but conversations are changing for sure

I do think with region 6 and 7 harvest data from the last couple years nonresident regional caps need to be put in place regardless of season date. I sure appreciate the group that put this proposal together.

 

[bigsky2]

I do think with region 6 and 7 harvest data from the last couple years nonresident regional caps need to be put in place regardless of season date. I sure appreciate the group that put this proposal together.

The benefit of the choose your region is that FWP will have all the data on where hunters are going, even if harvest data is unreliable.

 

[rmyoung1]

The brain trust behind this proposal doesn’t need me to speak for them, but, based on the nature of some of the criticism, I feel the need to remind everyone that this proposal isn’t being billed as a rigid, foolproof method for curing all that ails MT mule deer. Re-reading Gerald’s initial post will remind everyone of all the group’s proposal is trying to balance. I think the point is that something like this is a great place to start. It speaks to the heart of the issues plaguing mule deer and the challenges of managing our wildlife in the present day, while mindfully considering those affected by the change. I’m excited by the prospects of this conversation maturing and leading to meaningful results. Much thanks to the working group. It feels like seeds are being planted. I’m hoping that the years to come see the positive results of your forward-thinking approach.