Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[SagebrushSlayer]

I think the proposal would be a step in the right direction. Habitat based on Regions needs for the enhancement of mule deer should be included. Obviously this would need to be coordinated with the feds and/or State trust lands.

I would say it would be Region dependent/authorized, but if after 5 years, the increase in mule deer vs carrying capacity improves significantly, add a November mule deer buck season (7days). Limited quota, based off buck:doe ratio and mule deer mature buck age class(5+ years old) Season would be the Monday after the first weekend in November for 7 days.

With the youth consideration, if they get the days towards the end of October now and before general hunters get out, I think changing the weekend that would benefit them, to the First weekend in November. They would get that weekend to shoot a MD or WT, with adult hunters only being able to hunt WT for your November season.

A pick your Region would be fine, if each Region can adjust tags + or - based on population swings/weather. Each Region would need to produce assessments on what is working on rebuilding the mule deer population (predator management, increased elk harvest, habitat improvement). Assessment due every 3-5 years.

Pick your species, i would allow for a WT only second tag, limited in numbers and only available for the same region MD tag was valid for.

Just my random thoughts, with hope that an uptrend in MD could be achieved by taking steps to give them a chance to rebound, with all of the ever increasing demands western states are seeing population wise and hunting demand wise.

 

[sscrano]

Good afternoon folks. We all know that the current status of mule deer in Montana is a topic of great interest and debate. Many folks who have hunted mule deer for decades have expressed frustration and alarm over the downward trend in both quantity of mule deer and quality of hunting experience under the status quo of mule deer management.

Back in February, a group of us met to discuss the future of mule deer after spending years complaining about it online. The group was comprised of volunteers from each region of Montana and included landowners, outfitters, public land hunters and folks with a lot of experience interacting with FWP and the Montana Legislature on wildlife management issues.

During that day long meeting, the group of 9 members of Hunt Talk discussed a variety of concerns ranging from season structure to predation to habitat issues.

There was unanimous consensus among the group that the health of mule deer and other wildlife resources must be priority in making management decisions. It was also unanimously agreed upon that our current management policies are no longer sustainable without causing degradation to mule deer.

Out of that conversation it was agreed upon that the lowest hanging fruit, and perhaps one of the most important to address was the way that Montana has structured it's general hunting seasons over the last 40 years.


Montana is an opportunity state, which is both a blessing and a curse. The North American Model calls for the democratization and egalitarian allocation of the wildlife resource and that is something that this group wanted to maintain. When we looked at overall herd numbers (we're at the bottom end of the 10 year cycle), loss of habitat and the large influx of both resident and non-resident hunters, it became clear that sustaining a liberal harvest strategy on mule deer was going to be problematic.

Also, the group recognized that while the growth of doe licenses has been severely curbed both through legislation (SB 281) and the Commission decisions that eliminated doe hunting in Regions 6 & 7, mule deer were still going to be at higher risk during the standard season structure. In order to bring back our mule deer herds, improve hunting strategies for elk to increase hunter efficacy and reduce overall the number of days it takes to harvest an animal, the group developed the following proposal.

Last week we released drafts of this proposal to various conservation organizations and to FWP for their consideration to begin gathering support for the proposed changes or for input on how to improve our proposals.

If you want more detail, read the attached PDF as these are just the bare-bones highlights.

The Big Change to Deer Hunting:

1.) Deer: Choose your region, choose your species: The idea is to spread around pressure and move the mule deer hunt out of the rut. Hunters must select a region and a species to hunt. This does not limit the hunter on OTC regional B licenses or unit specific B licenses. If you wish to hunt antlered mule deer in eastern Montana, who have to declare the region and the species. This limits your antlered hunting to that area, but you still may utilize a B license in the unit it is valid.

What doesn't change:

1.) Limited entry districts do not revert to the new general season structure, as they have limited pressure already, and can sustain longer general seasons.
2.) The backcountry hunts in the Scapegoat and Bob Marshall, Absaroka Wilderness, etc. stay the same.
3.) Two day youth hunt remains the same. Youth hunters during this two day season will not be limited to single region only and may hunt whitetail or mule deer in accordance with the regulations of the unit they are hunting.


Basic Season Structure:
August 25 - September 30th: Archery for whitetail, mule deer and elk

October 1 - October 31: Antlered Mule Deer. Doe harvest by permit only

October Cow Elk Season: Private land only, two weeks in length applied in the middle of mule deer season.

November 1-30: General Whitetail and Elk season. Liberal cow seasons on private land, permitted/licensed on public with very tight limitations to reduce hunter pressure.

December 7-16: Muzzleloader season

December 10-25: Additional Cow only season.

The cow seasons are meant to provide a meaningful alternative to shoulder seasons, which after a decade of use have both good and bad results. The idea on cow seasons is to focus pressure on areas that need it over a shorter period of time in order to “shock” elk back on to public land where tolerance is far higher and to assist biologists in bringing elk populations closer to objective in over objective units.


Montanans value the opportunity to hunt deer and elk at the same time. They value opportunity above antler size. We believe that this proposal will do several things to guarantee and improve opportunity for future generations by giving up just a tiny fraction of our opportunity today.

This proposal does not call for more limited entry areas, nor does it call for regional caps to limit hunter mobility. We have worked with outfitters, landowners and DIY public land hunters to pull this together to a place where we feel like it's ready for people to review and hopefully support.

I’d like to acknowledge the folks involved in bringing these proposals into what we are presenting here @bigsky2 (Jess Wagner), @cgasner1 (Chris Gasner), @Schaaf ( Justin Schaaf), @Gerald Martin,(Gerald Martin) @MTTW (Tim Willson) @Randy11 ( RandyHodges) @antlerradar (Art Hayes III), @Eric Albus , ( Eric Albus)and @Big Shooter (Rod Paschke) I also like to thank @Ben Lamb for helping facilitate the meeting and organizing our ideas into a coherent proposal.

Does the plan allow the hunting of whitetail does during October or is that only for mule deer?

 

[Elkslayer38]

I do not agree with this. Stupid

 

[brockel]

I must be missing something. We already get whitetail in the rut. This proposal only makes the season go a few days further to the end of November. Right?
Last year it went Oct 21- Nov 26 the new proposal isn’t going to motivate additional whitetail hunters. IMO

You aren’t hunting mule deer October and then switching to whitetail in November. You are now either picking mule deer October OR whitetail November

 

[antlerradar]

I do not agree with this. Stupid

Why? There is no wrong answer.

 

[jmcd]

This all sounds great. Definitely changes that need to happen. Great job to those involved.
Serious question though, is there a snowball’s chance in hell fwp will adopt this?

 

[brockel]

This all sounds great. Definitely changes that need to happen. Great job to those involved.
Serious question though, is there a snowball’s chance in hell fwp will adopt this?

I don’t see fwp making any changes until non resident tags go unsold. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[antlerradar]

I don’t see fwp making any changes until non resident tags go unsold. I hope I’m wrong.

Fwp wouldn't have put together a Mule Deer CAC if no one in the department was willing to change a thing. How big a change they are willing to accept is yet to be determined.

 

[Nick87]

As someone watching from the sidelines I really hope you guys get this through. I think it's a great proposal and your still offering more opportunity than most any other western state. If you do I think it may just set a precedent for some other states who are going in the wrong direction. However, based on some of the initial reaction I have my doubts about it passing. We've had the same responses here anytime change is brought up. If it isn't perfect for an individual they reject the idea immediately. An ubundance of dense folks out there. Good luck! Pulling for you guys on this.

 

[mtmuley]

If it isn't perfect for an individual they reject the idea immediately.

Exactly. Hunters need to think about the big picture and Montana as a whole as far as mule deer go. Not just how it affects them and the way they have always hunted. mtmuley

 

[Muleyassassin406]

Exactly. Hunters need to think about the big picture and Montana as a whole as far as mule deer go. Not just how it affects them and the way they have always hunted. mtmuley

If Residents are going to embrace change I’m sure most are going to want to see the nr affected first and foremost!

 

[Nick87]

Exactly. Hunters need to think about the big picture and Montana as a whole as far as mule deer go. Not just how it affects them and the way they have always hunted. mtmuley

Should be worried about the herd first and how it effects hunting second. That's what separates sportsman from guys who like to shoot deer imo.

 

[tzog]

I think the proposal would be a step in the right direction. Habitat based on Regions needs for the enhancement of mule deer should be included. Obviously this would need to be coordinated with the feds and/or State trust lands.

I would say it would be Region dependent/authorized, but if after 5 years, the increase in mule deer vs carrying capacity improves significantly, add a November mule deer buck season (7days). Limited quota, based off buck:doe ratio and mule deer mature buck age class(5+ years old) Season would be the Monday after the first weekend in November for 7 days.

With the youth consideration, if they get the days towards the end of October now and before general hunters get out, I think changing the weekend that would benefit them, to the First weekend in November. They would get that weekend to shoot a MD or WT, with adult hunters only being able to hunt WT for your November season.

A pick your Region would be fine, if each Region can adjust tags + or - based on population swings/weather. Each Region would need to produce assessments on what is working on rebuilding the mule deer population (predator management, increased elk harvest, habitat improvement). Assessment due every 3-5 years.

Pick your species, i would allow for a WT only second tag, limited in numbers and only available for the same region MD tag was valid for.

Just my random thoughts, with hope that an uptrend in MD could be achieved by taking steps to give them a chance to rebound, with all of the ever increasing demands western states are seeing population wise and hunting demand wise.

Can you expound a bit on the objection to regional caps?

 

[perma]

I do not agree with this. Stupid

What would you do differently?

 

[golfer]

Fwp wouldn't have put together a Mule Deer CAC if no one in the department was willing to change a thing. How big a change they are willing to accept is yet to be determined.

What were all the outcomes of the Elk CAC? They submitted how many proposals, how many have had anything come from them? I think capping mule deer doe tags came from it but I don’t know if any others that went through.

 

[4ohSick]

Sorry if it’s been mentioned, but one addition I would propose is the addition of a small number of LE mule deer permits for the rut in all the current general areas. Like 50 per HD or maybe even less. It would spread out the bonus points and allow a few people to hunt dumb bucks but additional harvest would be pretty minor.

 

[cgasner1]

Sorry if it’s been mentioned, but one addition I would propose is the addition of a small number of LE mule deer permits for the rut in all the current general areas. Like 50 per HD or maybe even less. It would spread out the bonus points and allow a few people to hunt dumb bucks but additional harvest would be pretty minor.

It was discussed in our group. At this point just trying to keep things simple as weird as that may sound. Almost any other ideas that have been mentioned we did discuss. As far as setting a season structure its easy to due by yourself when it favors your niche. I could sit down after work every night for a week and write up a different structure that would fit my niche. It changes when you’re in a room with a bunch of other people. This purposal would literally take the only time that I take time off work to hunt from me. The purposal isn’t about me. That’s what people need to realize is it’s about all of us not a single person.

 

[Montana_Wanderer]

Thank you to all that have put in so much work on this proposal! The state is in dire need of changes in our management strategies.

One thought about the early opener is that there are public land access roads that close on September 1st. With the early opener in August some areas will be way more accessible for deer/elk. It would be very difficult to organize changes in the forest travel plans to align with the new opener so we would have to accept there would be easier access and greater disturbance in some areas the first week of season.

 

[Sytes]

One query:
It appeared a common theme of disappointment within several on this public committee for extending pressure beyond the current pressured seasons with the traditional muzzleloaders after a full rifle season.

Was it not a solid bite by the majority to fit this as a one week or ten day traditional hunt by removing it from the start/end of archery or rifle season? Or does it not hold enough bang for the buck (pun intended) to adjust this additional pressure?

 

[Flynarrow]

This all sounds great. Definitely changes that need to happen. Great job to those involved.
Serious question though, is there a snowball’s chance in hell fwp will adopt this?

The group just has to convince FWP that it was FWP's idea and then it might happen. Just look at the terrible history/results that citizen petitions to change something has actually resulted in change.