Montana FWP makes seismic shift in elk permits

[Irrelevant]

All this tells you is where they were when they died. It doesn’t tell you anything about their movements and use of refuge.

If they died on private then they were accessible to someone and the stated goal is killing more elk on private then that goal was achieved.

Or if, over time, you see that despite the shoulder seasons, despite whatever tag allocation scheme they go with, despite the next round of giveaways to the private ranch owners, despite the claims by the director, more elk are getting killed on public than on private then that's valuable information as well. Information that can be used to combat those very ideas we're all against.

I'll admit, it doesn't solve any problems right now. All it does it provide better data to hopefully solve problems in the future.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Data collection via mandatory reporting doesn’t fix current problems. It isn’t really intended to.

It’s a positive and logical next step in responsible decision making when considering management policy changes in the future.

 

[MThuntr]

Got this in an email...thought it was worthy of a share even though I received it a few days late

‘Twas the night before Tentatives, and all through the state,
FWP staff were preparing for the ‘morrow’s debate.
Biologists had prepped their season proposals with care,
In hopes the Commission would at least read them; somehow, somewhere.
For us hunting season was over, we were all snug in our beds,
While visions of next year danced in our heads.

A lengthy regs simplification was just about done,
On instruction, bios combined many districts to one.
Shoulder seasons’d been decided, it was presumed all a wrap,
And permits persisted, retaining the nonresident cap.
Then all over Facebook popped a Department newsletter,
That removed any doubt this administration knew better.

I’d ne’er before seen something so offensively brash,
At least not since all this ‘war on wolves’ balderdash.
The gist of the thing deals the public a blow;
Giving the luster of bull hunting to those with the dough.

Where did this come from, why was this here?
Not from biologists, who care for the resource so dear,
With a New Jersey transplant, and his wealthiest supporte,
I knew in a moment this was all Gianforte.
More rapid than eagles he’s put FWP in disorder,
Faster than you can assault a reporter.

From his governor’s mansion, I almost heard him proclaim;
As he whistled, and shouted; and called his cronies by name:
“Now! UPOM, now! MOGA, now! Hank, my strawman!
On! PERC, on! Galt, on! Ferris and Dan;
‘Cross the Breaks, and the prairies! And the Snowies so tall!
Now privatize! Privatize! Privatize all!”

So slimy and crooked, what Hank Worsech has done,
Took bad bills from the session, and morphed them to one.
And he kept it all quiet, ‘till the news release came out,
That he’d even changed his bios’ proposals about.

A free-for-all on private; permits left on public lands?
Ensures the fruits of wildlife management stay out of us ‘commoners’ hands.

I kept shaking my head, I could see it play out,
This whole mess’d be an enforcement nightmare, no doubt.
And then in a twinkling, I saw our Block Management go “poof!”
Whether it’d be the new, bigger crowds, or high market value of bull elk on the hoof.

As I pondered, and considered the too many elk all around,
Killing bulls solves our problems? What an idea unsound!
I thought, “Ol’ Hank needs to go back and re-take sex-ed,”
“For it’s cows, not bulls, who are the ones that get bred!”
I kept thinking and thinking, ‘till my thinker was sore,
What’s happening in Montana’s never happened before.
Our eyes, they’ve been blinded! Our mouths all gaped wide,
Our cheeks grew red hot, the anger wouldn’t subside.
We brought this on ourselves, in November 2020,
The red wave that took over Montana by a plenty.

Else we make the North American Model a martyr
A voice came from the clouds, telling us to be smarter.
As I imagined T.R. Roosevelt spoke from the heavens
Like sourdough starter, my spirts they leavened,
“These are your lands, your resources, your natural wonders,
Cherish them for your children’s children, not greedy men’s plunders!”

In the blink of an eye I knew what I must do,
To ensue that tenants of the NA Model come through.
We hunters need to speak up when it matters,
Else see a great legacy wind up in tatters.

Mark your calendar, for the fourteenth of December,
Make this a Commission meeting to remember
There’s one way we can undo this un-right;
As TR’s voice slipped away I heard a shout ‘cross the night,
“Speak softly; carry a big mallet, and when 2024 comes around, grab them all by the ballot!”

Annonymous

 

[SAJ-99]

Is that a 3 or a +3 green can response?

So many bitter hops...

It can't be that bad, the commission clearly values the public to some extent

Unfortunately, @Greenhorn and @Big Fin have it correct. Any solution presented for those districts oriented toward getting elk on public land so they can be shot by public land hunters is futile. I figure there are two options 1) Tell them to change it to cow elk only and open up public land too so elk numbers will actually go down, or 2) create a transferrable landowner tag that FWP can limit - In the Wilks case, call it the Asshole tag because they create the problem in their district. My only modification is that the Asshole tags cost $10,000. Might as well help the budget on the whole thing.

In politics, everyone is after something and answers to someone. Think of the concept of the film Human Centipede (won't post the image. For those unfamiliar, you have to google). You have to figure out who's lips are where. GG is auditioning for a future position in the political spectrum. So is Hank W. Most politicians are. That is how you determine motivations. I doubt the Commission members are pure in their intentions as well. Some may be viewing this as a stepping stone.
MOGA and UPOM are simply organizations trying to get their members the largest slice of the pie. With them, it is almost always about $$$. Trying to convince them to participate in making the pie bigger so everyone can enjoy it is very tough.

 

[Irrelevant]

I doubt the Commission members are pure in their intentions as well.

My point was that after watching most of the commission meeting, at least some of the commissioners actually value public input and are not entirely beholden to some boogy man boss out there. If they were all bought and paid for like GG and Hank, then it would be completely futile to even show up.

Many of their responses gave me hope. I'm trying to focus on that, because as BF noted fatigue is real.

 

[SAJ-99]

My point was that after watching most of the commission meeting, at least some of the commissioners actually value public input and are not entirely beholden to some boogy man boss out there. If they were all bought and paid for like GG and Hank, then it would be completely futile to even show up.

Many of their responses gave me hope. I'm trying to focus on that, because as BF noted fatigue is real.

Agreed. Better to have optimism, but make sure it isn't blind. Waller made a statement on the public trust in the commission. Admirable, but I asked myself "Why"? The Commission did a bunch of stuff already in 2021 that was overwhelmingly perceived as negative and against the majority of public comment. It is widely viewed as politically influenced. And who is "the public" in her eyes? Landowners are public, hunters are public, non-hunters are public. Someone didn't clue her in. If her intentions are pure then good for her. Taking a look at the rest of the commission and I find her in the minority. She has her work cut out for her. I guess they all answer to the citizens eventually.

 

[golfer]

Agreed. Better to have optimism, but make sure it isn't blind. Waller made a statement on the public trust in the commission. Admirable, but I asked myself "Why"? The Commission did a bunch of stuff already in 2021 that was overwhelmingly perceived as negative and against the majority of public comment. It is widely viewed as politically influenced. And who is "the public" in her eyes? Landowners are public, hunters are public, non-hunters are public. Someone didn't clue her in. If her intentions are pure then good for her. Taking a look at the rest of the commission and I find her in the minority. She has her work cut out for her. I guess they all answer to the citizens eventually.

Why? She doesn’t want to lose her following on social media or viewers of whatever her current show is producing. Or maybe beaded European mount clients.

 

[Carnage2011]

Why? She doesn’t want to lose her following on social media or viewers of whatever her current show is producing. Or maybe beaded European mount clients.

She wasn’t on the commission when they passed some of their earlier BS. Also, stop being so damn cynical (not you specifically, everyone). Bottom line is, she is correct. Maybe she has hunters best interests in mind? Most the people that are skeptical of her are actually skeptical of her Boyfriend. So far she has been willing to listen and make statements that don’t align with Hank and Greg’s assault on elk.

You, nor anyone else, know what her motives are. I don’t either, but we need to stop trying to make enemies with someone just because they have a social media following.

 

[golfer]

She wasn’t on the commission when they passed some of their earlier BS. Also, stop being so damn cynical (not you specifically, everyone). Bottom line is, she is correct. Maybe she has hunters best interests in mind? Most the people that are skeptical of her are actually skeptical of her Boyfriend. So far she has been willing to listen and make statements that don’t align with Hank and Greg’s assault on elk.

You, nor anyone else, know what her motives are. I don’t either, but we need to stop trying to make enemies with someone just because they have a social media following.

Cynical? I listened to the meeting she made her comment the previous day during the work session, but from what her and Walsh stated about the public opposition I sure didn’t see them standing in opposition of giving the landowners what they wanted and the public land guys a stick to the eye. As for her boyfriend or whatever I have no clue who he is so that is a moot point.

 

[SAJ-99]

She wasn’t on the commission when they passed some of their earlier BS. Also, stop being so damn cynical (not you specifically, everyone). Bottom line is, she is correct. Maybe she has hunters best interests in mind? Most the people that are skeptical of her are actually skeptical of her Boyfriend. So far she has been willing to listen and make statements that don’t align with Hank and Greg’s assault on elk.

You, nor anyone else, know what her motives are. I don’t either, but we need to stop trying to make enemies with someone just because they have a social media following.

Being cynical has value when dealing with politicians and governmental bodies. It keeps you from accepting promises and being screwed over and over. I hold out hope that she is willing to be pragmatic and take varying views into account (I actually have more hope for her than the others). But I don't need a great memory to see where the committee's actions were contrary to this public view, so am comfortable saying she may be in the minority. The Sept meeting gave the Wilks 8 either sex permits in exchange for letting 8 public hunters shoot cows. There was short notice on the meeting and the few public comments were largely negative. Cebull and Waller were not at the meeting, and apparently didn't vote by proxy. This was the scout program for the latest BS idea dropped by FWP.

https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/wilks-elk-license.309374/

 

[Carnage2011]

Being cynical has value when dealing with politicians and governmental bodies. It keeps you from accepting promises and being screwed over and over. I hold out hope that she is willing to be pragmatic and take varying views into account (I actually have more hope for her than the others). But I don't need a great memory to see where the committee's actions were contrary to this public view, so am comfortable saying she may be in the minority. The Sept meeting gave the Wilks 8 either sex permits in exchange for letting 8 public hunters shoot cows. There was short notice on the meeting and the few public comments were largely negative. Cebull and Waller were not at the meeting, and apparently didn't vote by proxy. This was the scout program for the latest BS idea dropped by FWP.

https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/wilks-elk-license.309374/

It doesn’t matter. Those agreements were something the legislature passed and the commission openly states they can’t shoot them down unless there is biological reasoning. So negative comments or not, it’s a moot point.

We have a couple commissioners that may listen. Let’s try and communicate with them rather than assume they have other motives.

 

[SAJ-99]

It doesn’t matter. Those agreements were something the legislature passed and the commission openly states they can’t shoot them down unless there is biological reasoning. So negative comments or not, it’s a moot point.

We have a couple commissioners that may listen. Let’s try and communicate with them rather than assume they have other motives.

I hope you are right. In Waller's defense, it appears she wasn't in the seat when that meeting took place. I got the timing wrong on that. Don't know where Cebull was. And I agree that it was a consequence of the legislation, but still believe we will see more of it. All I can say is that to get their ear, we better speak loudly at times and not let up.

 

[sacountry]

Data collection via mandatory reporting doesn’t fix current problems. It isn’t really intended to.

It’s a positive and logical next step in responsible decision making when considering management policy changes in the future.

I agree with you with one caveat. If we can get agreement on the value of statewide reporting now then we have ammo to put a stay on this dumb district consolidation thing. I'm still scratching my head as to how/why we ever spent tax payer dollars trying to draft/fix something that wasn't broken. It's all smoke I know. Perhaps we need to repeal the recently approved marijuana laws....or at least inside Helena city limits cause that smoke is wacky.

 

[Irrelevant]

spent tax payer dollars trying to draft/fix something that wasn't broken.

I think that's a pretty powerful point that resonates will with a very large constituency. Beat that drum!

 

[Pagosa]

I spoke to two of the Commissioners and left messages for all of them. Pat Tabor and Bill Lane were the two that called back. I had a good conversation with Commissioner Lane and he brought up some good points and is a active rancher in eastern Montana. I thought his interest were correct and not much different than a lot of view points on this thread. The Director and his supporters are the problem. Preston

 

[Ben Lamb]

I think that's a pretty powerful point that resonates will with a very large constituency. Beat that drum!

Point of order: they spend sportsmen's dollars. Not tax dollars.

So it's just hunters that are getting the shaft. Not everyone.

 

[sacountry]

Point of order: they spend sportsmen's dollars. Not tax dollars.

So it's just hunters that are getting the shaft. Not everyone.

 

[JLS]

I spoke to two of the Commissioners and left messages for all of them. Pat Tabor and Bill Lane were the two that called back. I had a good conversation with Commissioner Lane and he brought up some good points and is a active rancher in eastern Montana. I thought his interest were correct and not much different than a lot of view points on this thread. The Director and his supporters are the problem. Preston

Bill is a good guy.

 

[Irrelevant]

Point of order: they spend sportsmen's dollars. Not tax dollars.

So it's just hunters that are getting the shaft. Not everyone.

that's actually pretty crazy that there is ZERO general funding.

 

[Ben Lamb]

that's actually pretty crazy that there is ZERO general funding.

There's a significant amount of the recreational marijuana tax funding that will go towards state parks & recreation as well as habitat montana, but that hasn't happened yet. Other than that, none that I can think of.