Montana FWP makes seismic shift in elk permits

[WIbiggame]

FIND ANOTHER STATE!

Cashed in Wyoming points.


I was initially sad to not be applying in the state I came to with my Dad at 8yo and told him I would love to hunt elk here one day. He had hunted Montana on and off since '85 that dream I had as an 8yo came true 9 years ago and I have been very lucky to hunt 7 of the last 8 years in Montana with my Dad.

That sadness has since been replaced with an overwhelming awe of all of the scientific data, limited tags based of that data I have found in Wyoming.

Montana will always hold a very special place in my heart and I will still be writing to all the commissioners, but the days of telling my hunting partner "I don't want to hunt any place but Montana" are long gone.

 

[Eric Albus]

Cashed in Wyoming points.


I was initially sad to not be applying in the state I came to with my Dad at 8yo and told him I would love to hunt elk here one day. He had hunted Montana on and off since '85 that dream I had as an 8yo came true 9 years ago and I have been very lucky to hunt 7 of the last 8 years in Montana with my Dad.

That sadness has since been replaced with an overwhelming awe of all of the scientific data, limited tags based of that data I have found in Wyoming.

Montana will always hold a very special place in my heart and I will still be writing to all the commissioners, but the days of telling my hunting partner "I don't want to hunt any place but Montana" are long gone.

At least you’ll have a quality experience in Wyo..

 

[Eric Albus]

The most ironic part of all these threads is that NR's keep asking questions about the application process. If you are a NR, DIY, public-land elk hunter, FIND ANOTHER STATE! MT is trying to make hunting a private-land, outfitter-led experience. If you aren't willing to fork over the $$$, it is going to be difficult. I have watched a hand full of MT elk-hunt videos from the last few years and I don't think one was shot on public land except Randy's. This includes RMEF hunts.

MOGA members compete with outfitters in other states. They had better be paying attention to the decline in hunting quality because the way messages move on social media these days it is going to affect them quickly.

We compete with outfitters in others states, provinces, and amongst each other in state.

Until we come up with solutions to this conundrum things won’t change.

At this point I’m for trying anything new, ‘cause the same old ain’t workin’

 

[Gerald Martin]

We compete with outfitters in others states, provinces, and amongst each other in state.

Until we come up with solutions to this conundrum things won’t change.

At this point I’m for trying anything new, ‘cause the same old ain’t workin’

How’s that Kool Aid taste?
Ironic how that everyone saying the same old isn’t working are only offering solutions that benefit landowners who don’t allow access and outfitters.

Pretty sure there’s a lot of solutions being offered that aren’t even being considered.

 

[SAJ-99]

We compete with outfitters in others states, provinces, and amongst each other in state.

Until we come up with solutions to this conundrum things won’t change.

At this point I’m for trying anything new, ‘cause the same old ain’t workin’

You have acknowledged this before and I take you at your word. You are in a unique position to actually do something about it. Even if the proposals are different, nothing in them is going to help solve the problem of a declining Montana hunting experience.

 

[MTGomer]

Ya i no scholar.

But you do have self awareness, so you get a few points there.

 

[Eric Albus]

How’s that Kool Aid taste?
Ironic how that everyone saying the same old isn’t working are only offering solutions that benefit landowners who don’t allow access and outfitters.

Pretty sure there’s a lot of solutions being offered that aren’t even being considered.

Anything new that is instated should have a mandatory sunset with review in 2 yrs.

One thing I want everyone to remember is when it comes to elk, I too am On the outside looking in.

I’m not a big fan of landowner permits, but if NR’ were limited to a 5 day season limit, and it if gets the public a measure of access it should be given consideration. A little access is better than none.

I really think NR’s should be limited to 5 day, Mon-Fri, pick their week, season. Allows R’s weekends free of NR competition, and limits me as an outfitter on account of losing roughly 10 days of hunting, 20 if you count archery season.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Anything new that is instated should have a mandatory sunset with review in 2 yrs.

One thing I want everyone to remember is when it comes to elk, I too am On the outside looking in.

I’m not a big fan of landowner permits, but if NR’ were limited to a 5 day season limit, and it if gets the public a measure of access it should be given consideration. A little access is better than none.

I really think NR’s should be limited to 5 day, Mon-Fri, pick their week, season. Allows R’s weekends free of NR competition, and limits me as an outfitter on account of losing roughly 10 days of hunting, 20 if you count archery season.

None of those options are on the table this time.

Unlimited archery permits. 50% increase in rifle permits…
This isn’t trying something new. It’s an extra helping of the same old…

 

[huntin24/7]

I know talking limited entry in MT is kind of taboo and I know we all like to hunt wherever we want to. That being said, at least more limited entry for deer and elk would mean each unit would actually be managed, hopefully for both healthy herd numbers and age class. Limited entry doesn’t necessarily mean trophy unit. A unit that is estimated to have 100 bucks in it shouldn’t be possible for 1000 rifle hunters to hunt it for example. You’d have a lot of units that became more difficult to draw along with units that have leftover tags. Most everyone would still get to hunt a buck almost every year. I don’t want us to go full LQ, but i would like to see units managed at a more individual level. If not LQ, I think hunting seasons need to be made much more difficult. I know this doesn’t solve the landowner issues much, but units being managed individually at a science based carrying capacity is a start.

 

[Unlucky]

Basically what i think is, that this whole thing was a charade. Both sides in on it. Heads up, do not apply for the 14 elk districts that were targeted. Unless u want to pay for it. Fools gold on public.

I was targeted heavily for texting like posts. Really. Scare me off. Middle finger to u. I think its all a shame, both sides talking and negotiating things.

My opionon is the rich control fwp and will make laws and rules to benifit them. A cost to the public land hunter. A resident or non resident. Laws or rules made by a man, which can be influenced by $$$. Which happened.

Obviously nothing good for the publuc which will result in $$$ getting what they want and the public left in the cold.

I hope, truly public hunts the borders of private. Honestly Obviously coruption benefits the private and screws the public. I don't blame a guy that shoots a bull or buck by poaching it on private. A guy burns his points and poaches a good bull or buck vs a guy that pays for it. Based on FWP bullchit. Corupt laws or average joe tired if it.

Disgusted by both sides. Good way to let the public land hunter know its a rigged game.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Basically what i think is, that this whole thing was a charade. Both sides in on it. Heads up, do not apply for the 14 elk districts that were targeted. Unless u want to pay for it. Fools gold on public.

I was targeted heavily for texting like posts. Really. Scare me off. Middle finger to u. I think its all a shame, both sides talking and negotiating things.

My opionon is the rich control fwp and will make laws and rules to benifit them. A cost to the public land hunter. A resident or non resident. Laws or rules made by a man, which can be influenced by $$$. Which happened.

Obviously nothing good for the publuc which will result in $$$ getting what they want and the public left in the cold.

I hope, truly public hunts the borders of private. Honestly Obviously coruption benefits the private and screws the public. I don't blame a guy that shoots a bull or buck by poaching it on private. A guy burns his points and poaches a good bull or buck vs a guy that pays for it. Based on FWP bullchit. Corupt laws or average joe tired if it.

Disgusted by both sides. Good way to let the public land hunter know its a rigged game.

Roger, we hear you. Now it's time for you to listen to others and learn. You type too much and too confusingly. Out!

 

[SAJ-99]

None of those options are on the table this time.

Unlimited archery permits. 50% increase in rifle permits…
This isn’t trying something new. It’s an extra helping of the same old…

Spot on! The proposal the table is “more of the same”. FWP has always defaulted to more permits and more pressure to solve the problem. How has that worked out? New idea would be to actually cut tags and change the type mix. That is non-intuitive and doesn’t fix the true underlying desire of the administration.

 

[Big Fin]

None of those options are on the table this time.

Unlimited archery permits. 50% increase in rifle permits…
This isn’t trying something new. It’s an extra helping of the same old…

The Director gets to answer a question related to this when I post my podcast later today. (starting around the 50 minute mark)

If one defines insanity as doing the same thing and expecting a different result, I ask him why we are doubling down on the old ideas that didn't work 10-15 years ago.

I'm reviewing the final edit this morning. Something was messed up with my audio levels, so the editor had his work cut out to boost the levels without blowing out the audio clarity. Pissed at myself. In our low overhead operation, I get to be host, producer, audio tech (the part I suck at the most), and publisher.

 

[WIbiggame]

Shooting a 2yr old muley should illegal. Full draw allows for science to base tags off of.

How do you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously when you say this and want science based decision making but then go on to say this the next day..

I don't blame a guy that shoots a bull or buck by poaching it on private

So you are ok with poaching and lying on harvest surveys? You are special kind of person.

 

[Unlucky]

Way i c it, is a guy poaching an elk or deer is the same thing as FWP forcing these new regulations that only benifit land owners and the rich. Both are stealing from montana. Just comparing them.

Ya i think mule deer in montana should be all draw to protect the few that are left.

I have never lied on a hunter survey. I just dont report the animals i seen on private lands. Figure thats fair

 

[WIbiggame]

Iam going to tell them didnt c much in my fav unit and there were alot of predators.

Seems to me you have no problem lying on the phone surveys.

 

[Unlucky]

Was an example of what people will do. Pointing out, that it can be easily manipulated

 

[pyrotechnic]

Well.....this was an interesting and informative thread to follow.

 

[Bullshot]

The data should be there counts on elk, deer herds. Tags based off of science.

Realistically not many people going to tell u where they killed there elk. Just being realistic. Iam going to tell them didnt c much in my fav unit and there were alot of predators.

this is the worst reason I’ve ever heard against harvest reporting. if its mandatory and you don’t do it after killing your elk, you are breaking the law whether you get caught or not, not just being “secretive”. so get with the times.

 

[Buffs35]