Montana FWP makes seismic shift in elk permits

[WIbiggame]

How about a 5 day license, good Monday thru Friday for NR hunters, they can pick their week. This would detract from land values, and keep NR from competing on weekends with R hunters.

About 6-7 months ago wasn't your (MOGA's) argument for more tags to outfitters centered around the DYI crowd not spending enough money to justify them getting the tags? Wouldn't a 5 day limit on their time in the state make their spending even less? Also limiting them to M-F they are more likely to stay in the woods longer and not head into town a couple times to spend some money?

 

[rmyoung1]

I’m not sure how much impact it would have in those things, but it is better than nothing and it doesn’t affect residents. Heck, make it 7 days. That is about the longest any Montanan wants a NR to stick around anyway.

I’m a NR now and I think MT could even take this a step further. Divide those 17,500 tags into 3,500 for each of the five weeks of rifle season and have the NR applicants pick a week in their application. It would certainly spread out the NR pressure and maybe save some mule deer bucks from those NRs simply wanting to get something out of their big game combo. The last two weeks of Nov would be difficult to draw probably. Earlier weeks would be easier, I’m guessing. But it might solve some problems, while still offering opportunity and at least the potential for revenue neutrality.

 

[Unlucky]

Did we forget, they are not listening to the bios. They are doing what is best fir them and the landowners

 

[TheJason]

You guys are still missing the point that there is not a single mechanism to distribute out those NR hunters into different areas. Who gives a shit when they hunt or how long they hunt if you aren’t distributing pressure?

Maybe instead of making a 5 week season less fu&$ed up it might be time to do away with the 5 week season. Keep pushing opportunity…

 

[Unlucky]

Distribute hunters like a draw system would

 

[rmyoung1]

You guys are still missing the point that there is not a single mechanism to distribute out those NR hunters into different areas. Who gives a shit when they hunt or how long they hunt if you aren’t distributing pressure?

Maybe instead of making a 5 week season less fu&$ed up it might be time to do away with the 5 week season. Keep pushing opportunity…

Maybe pick-a-week-pick-a-region??? Separate quotas for each region?? I just feel like this is low-hanging fruit since most NRs can’t do multiple trips and would be much less prone to moving around the state anyway. When I come back to MT to hunt, I usually have a specific spot or two in mind and hunt five days or less. I bet most NRs are similar. It does force an NR to plan ahead, which isn’t a bad thing either.

 

[tjones]

Quite possible some outfitters will become a thing of the past.

Hunt clubs will out price outfitters for leases.

 

[TheJason]

Maybe pick-a-week-pick-a-region??? I just feel like this is low-hanging fruit since most NRs can’t do multiple trips and would be much less prone to moving around the state anyway. When I come back to MT to hunt, I usually have a specific spot or two in mind and hunt five days or less. I bet most NRs are similar. It does force an NR to plan ahead, which isn’t a bad thing either.

So ultimately, what did you really accomplish if it’s already happening?

 

[rmyoung1]

So ultimately, what did you really accomplish if it’s already happening?

Well, I suspect a disproportionate share of those NR hunters are hunting during the last two weeks of November when bucks are rut stupid and the potential snow levels may force elk to feed longer. If you limit each week to 1/5 of the total NR combo tag holders you’ve done something to alleviate pressure in late November when bucks and bulls are more vulnerable. Further limiting those 3,500 by specific region would spread pressure out even further.

It’s not a panacea but it would be something that would maintain revenue levels, still offering NR opportunity but distributing pressure by date & region.

It would be interesting to learn when the 17,500 NRs actually hunt. Maybe my suspicion isn’t accurate. Or maybe it is. I’m sure that data doesn’t exist though.

 

[TheJason]

Funny how ID and WY don’t need to screw with 5 day license ideas.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Funny how ID and WY don’t need to screw with 5 day license ideas.

Psh. Who wants elk hunting like WY anyway?

 

[SAJ-99]

You guys are still missing the point that there is not a single mechanism to distribute out those NR hunters into different areas. Who gives a shit when they hunt or how long they hunt if you aren’t distributing pressure?

Maybe instead of making a 5 week season less fu&$ed up it might be time to do away with the 5 week season. Keep pushing opportunity…

I do agree. But you have to start somewhere and with something that can get through. As has been pointed out, right now we don’t know how pressure, NR or R, is distributed, either in time or area. I would suggest that eventually Rs need the same limits, which is why I said start with “pick a weapon”.

It’s not a great idea, but it’s better than unlimited bull tags. If you can get MOGA on board then you are 2/3 of the way to change.

 

[SAJ-99]

Funny how ID and WY don’t need to screw with 5 day license ideas.

MT would be in much better shape with a system like WY. But it won’t happen easily because everyone has to change a little and right now no one wants to go first.

 

[TheJason]

It’s not a great idea, but it’s better than unlimited bull tags.

And driving into a river is better than driving off a cliff.

 

[SAJ-99]

And driving into a river is better than driving off a cliff.

We already drove into the river. Many of the problem landowners are already getting some bull tags. People can protest until the commission relents and kills this idea, and that can feel like a victory. But we remain in the river heading toward the falls.

We all need to take some responsibility for the current “me,mine” that is driving the political environment. Until we figure out what we will sacrifice, we get nowhere.

 

[Gerald Martin]

We already drove into the river. Many of the problem landowners are already getting some bull tags. People can protest until the commission relents and kills this idea, and that can feel like a victory. But we remain in the river heading toward the falls.

We all need to take some responsibility for the current “me,mine” that is driving the political environment. Until we figure out what we will sacrifice, we get nowhere.

“I will sacrifice any semblance of quality hunting for the sake of opportunity.” -Montana Hunter

 

[Eric Albus]

Did we forget, they are not listening to the bios. They are doing what is best fir them and the landowners

That’s why the three largest Outfitters in in 622-630&670 recommendations are, I quote, “if the choice is do nothing or go to LE permit for mule deer, go LE permits”.

Some of us want the resource put first.

 

[Eric Albus]

About 6-7 months ago wasn't your (MOGA's) argument for more tags to outfitters centered around the DYI crowd not spending enough money to justify them getting the tags? Wouldn't a 5 day limit on their time in the state make their spending even less? Also limiting them to M-F they are more likely to stay in the woods longer and not head into town a couple times to spend some money?

When I reply on here it is ME speaking, not MOGA. If I speak on behalf of MOGA I will clearly define that I am.

 

[Eric Albus]

Psh. Who wants elk hunting like WY anyway?

The Wyoming model is a great one. Maybe not perfect but it works well enough for all involved.

 

[WIbiggame]

When I reply on here it is ME speaking, not MOGA. If I speak on behalf of MOGA I will clearly define that I am.

Ok than remove (MOGA) from my post and than it was CLEARLY YOU. Who had stated that the reason your clients should get the licenses is because your clients spend more money in the state. Thus deserve the tags.

I will point out that in the open comment section on 143 your president said the same thing so I guess I was correct in saying you and MOGA.

Edit: you never answered my question either. Wouldn't a 5 day season make us DIY guys even less of a financial asset to the state, thus making your clients deserve even more licenses?