Montana corner crossing (ish?)

[Beignet]

Hope there’s elk there and he goes and kills one tomorrow.

 

[Lota lota]

Small world. This is my neighbors brother. I didn’t know anything about this until I saw the link on here. I will only say that there is A LOT more to this case than what the article says. Reading the article it seems open and shut trespass case, but when was the last time a simple trespass case like that went to jury trial?

Time will tell.

If you plead not guilty and don't accept a plea deal prior to trial, the only thing to do is go to a jury trial. The defendant can also ask for a jury trial regardless of what his defense wants to do. Just an FYI. There could be a multitude of reasons...but misdemeanors like criminal trespass and hunting without landowner permission go to a jury trial all of the time. As do speeding ticket cases etc. It's your 6th Amendment Right.

 

[Lota lota]

I'll caveat with the fact that again, I'm only representing myself and my own opinions here, not that of any organization, nor are my comments meant to be taken as legal opinions. Just the opinion of a guy on the internet.

That said: I would not be surprised in the slightest if the AG was specifically looking for a "sloppy" case to try to put a nail in corner crossing and raise it when it shouldn't be raised in the first place; and also support the longstanding argument that mapping apps are not allowable evidence to disprove trespassing. The legislature tried to do that this past session.

Everything detailed in the article is just alleged and has not been proved by a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, including allegations that their cameras captured him on private land. Remember: the position of landowners such as this is that even when someone is crossing on a perfect corner, they are on private land.

It also sounds like the ranch manager has a bone to pick with the public (in some ways, that distrust is valid, given the OK Corral incident on Block Management from a few years back).

The AG almost never gets involved in misdemeanor cases. Take that for what it is worth.

Do you happen to have the information on the legislature not allowing/passing a bill on using mapping apps as evidence in court? I'd be interested in reading that.

 

[Elky Welky]

Do you happen to have the information on the legislature not allowing/passing a bill on using mapping apps as evidence in court? I'd be interested in reading that.

I'll do some digging. It's hunting season, I'm heading to elk camp this weekend for 7 days, and I'm switching jobs in my personal life. So please remind me again in a couple weeks if you don't hear from me.

 

[HerkHunter]

I'll do some digging. It's hunting season, I'm heading to elk camp this weekend for 7 days, and I'm switching jobs in my personal life. So please remind me again in a couple weeks if you don't hear from me.

Good luck on the new job!

 

[Brian in Montana]

My brash side is getting the better of me, so in light of all the talk and hubbub after the acquittals in the Wyoming case, any of you guys in Montana willing or intending to give corner crossing a go if circumstances align?

I have to admit, I'm tempted. I've never corner crossed in my life although I've always believed it was a stupid rule. But I'm about down to my last year in a corrections career, so I might be willing to fight something like this out in court. I wouldn't go out of my way to do it, but maybe not entirely disinclined, as I said before, if the circumstances lined up.

 

[Doublecluck]

My brash side is getting the better of me, so in light of all the talk and hubbub after the acquittals in the Wyoming case, any of you guys in Montana willing or intending to give corner crossing a go if circumstances align?

I have to admit, I'm tempted. I've never corner crossed in my life although I've always believed it was a stupid rule. But I'm about down to my last year in a corrections career, so I might be willing to fight something like this out in court. I wouldn't go out of my way to do it, but maybe not entirely disinclined, as I said before, if the circumstances lined up.

There are some corners I’ve crossed without incident, mainly ones where there is a pretty good indication others are as well and nobody really cares. There are a few that I would like to test and have a good inclination there will be issue. I know where some big bulls and bucks are that are one corner cross away.

 

[Hem]

Tried to get permission to corner hop this week.
One corner BMA, corner #2 a half section ( which I was denied to cross because " I would interfere with the flow of elk" even though all the hunters are using motorized to hunt anyway. Corner #3 I was denied permission because the large landowner was planning to hunt the property of corner #4 where I have permission. Again, I would interfere with the elk.
It's a 4 mile hike to get in to this area otherwise. Told both DB's to expect to see me on the back ranch doing my best to kill a friggin cow, and " have a great day".

 

[bowhunter406]

My brash side is getting the better of me, so in light of all the talk and hubbub after the acquittals in the Wyoming case, any of you guys in Montana willing or intending to give corner crossing a go if circumstances align?

I have to admit, I'm tempted. I've never corner crossed in my life although I've always believed it was a stupid rule. But I'm about down to my last year in a corrections career, so I might be willing to fight something like this out in court. I wouldn't go out of my way to do it, but maybe not entirely disinclined, as I said before, if the circumstances lined up.

I will be making a few post and statements about my experience with this case shortly. I saved all my tracks to show I never was anywhere they wanted to speculate I was. I will gladly tell you plea deals offered and cost of lawyers to fight it once I have all my ducks in a row. It might be worth it to you to push the issue, but maybe it’s not worth it either. It sucks to have your name blasted in the papers with such accusations. Especially when you are an ethical and legal hunter.

 

[Nameless Range]

This is all very confusing, but I guess I am glad it turned out to be much ado about not much, for you, @bowhunter406 .

Your case aside, it does make me wonder if there is a way to advance corner crossing in Montana, and how if so, how it will be done and where and by who.

 

[bowhunter406]

Well the fact of the matter is the state ag office wrote the ticket and dismissed the ticket without going to trial. And there was no evidence ever suppressed. The state has the same videos and pictures today they had when they wrote the ticket.
First, I want to clarify that there was no video or picture of me trespassing or hunting on private property. Any picture or video taken was of me on public land. I find it disturbing that wealthy landowners often withhold, or interfere with, access to public lands.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I’d loved to have been a fly on the wall listening to the discussions about how to deal with this in the AG’s office..

 

[Lota lota]

My brash side is getting the better of me, so in light of all the talk and hubbub after the acquittals in the Wyoming case, any of you guys in Montana willing or intending to give corner crossing a go if circumstances align?

I have to admit, I'm tempted. I've never corner crossed in my life although I've always believed it was a stupid rule. But I'm about down to my last year in a corrections career, so I might be willing to fight something like this out in court. I wouldn't go out of my way to do it, but maybe not entirely disinclined, as I said before, if the circumstances lined up.

I do it quite a bit. It's our land after all. I'm not advocating for others to follow suite but I'm willing to make case law. That's why I'm curious as to the ruling Elky Welky mentioned above. I worked in Law Enforcement for 5 years and can tell you that no cases (as of this date) have been successfully prosecuted in Montana. I even had memos from prosecutors in various counties that told me not to issue citations for this.

 

[rogerthat]

To me it’s straight forward. Make sure the corner is pinned, make sure you cross right at the corner public to public, be prepared to prove it, and have the intention and bank account to vigorously defend yourself.

 

[golfer]

To me it’s straight forward. Make sure the corner is pinned, make sure you cross right at the corner public to public, be prepared to prove it, and have the intention and bank account to vigorously defend yourself.

So what about those corners without a cap? I would bet the big majority of the public land users have no clue as to what they would be looking for when stepping over the original stone. How do you exactly step right over the center of the stone?That(center) is not marked and often time stone sizes vary from corner to corner.

 

[DFS]

So what about those corners without a cap? I would bet the big majority of the public land users have no clue as to what they would be looking for when stepping over the original stone. How do you exactly step right over the center of the stone?That(center) is not marked and often time stone sizes vary from corner to corner.

Be willing to vigorously defend yourself. I would suspect most people don’t step across an unmarked corner in the correct spot. On Halloween one night I did have someone’s kids get some candy and then their dog crapped on my lawn. I didn’t prosecute although I considered.

 

[rogerthat]

So what about those corners without a cap? I would bet the big majority of the public land users have no clue as to what they would be looking for when stepping over the original stone. How do you exactly step right over the center of the stone?That(center) is not marked and often time stone sizes vary from corner to corner.

A pinned corner would have a brass cap. Identifying the old glo survey stones can be a little tricky. You would need to know what you’re doing with those. The majority won’t.

 

[golfer]

A pinned corner would have a brass cap. Identifying the old glo survey stones can be a little tricky. You would need to know what you’re doing with those. The majority won’t.

BLM has bass caps. I am unsure if every corner FS is capped with a brass cap. I've also seen alot of state corners not even marked.

 

[rogerthat]

BLM has bass caps. I am unsure if every corner FS is capped with a brass cap. I've also seen alot of state corners not even marked.

Unfortunately I think it really depends when it was surveyed. Around 1908 they started setting brass caps. Anything before that is probably stones. The survey notes would tell you

 

[golfer]

Unfortunately I think it really depends when it was surveyed. Around 1908 they started setting brass caps. Anything before that is probably stones. The survey notes would tell you

Correct. Also depends if it’s a corner located by a federal surveyor or private surveyor. If the stone is undisturbed the cap/pin is merely a reference to the stone. Also, depending on the circumstances one would reference the US PLSS Manual on how to address and properly monument a stone that is not already recorded since the original survey.