Montana 2025 Legislative Session

[Flynarrow]

And you wonder why people worry about grizzlies well being if they were delisted and management was at the whim of a Montana legislative body?

 

[El Jason]

And you wonder why people worry about grizzlies well being if they were delisted and management was at the whim of a Montana legislative body?

Trust us they say…

 

[Hunting Wife]

Not at all a proponent of shoving it in their faces. I come from the camp of being conscientious about our image and how we represent ourselves. I’m just saying that we shouldn’t have to continually tip toe around management practices to avoid upsetting the antis. Wolves are their sacred cows, I understand that. Just tired of it. It’s not going to change. I also forget the political climate is different there and there’s a proven track record of judges that rule against us.

I have seen zero scientific evidence supporting unlimited seasons on wolves in Montana. If you have seen otherwise, please post it up. Otherwise, I’m not sure how advocating for science-based and ethical management of wolves constitutes tiptoeing around to appease anti’s.

Just trying to drill down to whether we are operating in the realm of opinion or science-based facts.

Are you against year round coyote hunting, prairie dogs, badgers, foxes, rabbits, marmot, etc too? Not sure I’ve seen a coyote den full of dead pups picture but it’s probably out there. Just curious

None of these have been even close to listing under the ESA. This is a nonsensical argument.

 

[Elktrack]

I have seen zero scientific evidence supporting unlimited seasons on wolves in Montana. If you have seen otherwise, please post it up. Otherwise, I’m not sure how advocating for science-based and ethical management of wolves constitutes tiptoeing around to appease anti’s.

Just trying to drill down to whether we are operating in the realm of opinion or science-based facts.

I’m not going to get into one of your contests of who can cite the most studies and what scientific evidence I have to support my opinion just so you can show off your superior intellect as a game department employee. I can’t regurgitate study information like you do.

My opinion was based on the scientific evidence that the state of Idaho has a year round season and it hasn’t led to over harvesting and ESA re listing. It’s a way for the state to try and keep their numbers in check which I thought was the point of the discussion.

So yeah, I’m operating in the realm of opinion here based on the “scientific evidence “ of observing a management tool being used to manage wolf numbers by a state agency.

The tip toeing opinion is also based on personal observations and listening to fellow hunters comments. Perhaps I’m the only one that feels this way?
Just my opinion.
I’m sure you’ve never heard comments made about something not working because of how the antis are going to react or how they will just tie something up in court. I fully understand that we absolutely have to be strategic about management tools based on the opposition, I just don’t like it and I was voicing my opinion about it.

 

[antlerradar]

None of these have been even close to listing under the ESA. This is a nonsensical argument.

Prairie Dogs were too close for me.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Prairie Dogs were too close for me.

Fair point.

 

[Forkyfinder]

None of these have been even close to listing under the ESA. This is a nonsensical argument.

I understood buzzh's comment to be hunting anything year round in relation to optics.

I don't imagine very many hunters with more than a single firing brain cell think year round hunting is anything close to proper or management. Its unfettered killing not management.

I am worried about the dipshits that live amongst us, in particular because of the backlash that threatens all of it, management, ethical hunting, etc.

And - i like to shoot prarie dogs occasionally - and I dont think theres anything wrong with it. Theyre good target practice. Open to being wrong - but they were a long ways from sparce where i was.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

This is the elephant in the room and I certainly will play a role in how big game is managed, especially Mule Deer. I’d like to see more money spent on CWD research and I don’t believe it should come out of wildlife funding. God help us if/when it spreads to humans……

Then we’ll take it seriously, won’t we @seeth07

 

[Flatbrimmer]

FWP has no control over how private landowners manage. CWD management is Montana’s current season structure, you can piss pound the public to nothing but private landowners aren’t going to do that. They have deer and quality bucks, it’s a tough sell to ask them to make their private look like the neighbors blm.

Unfortunately they care more about that powerful option than anyone having deer at all anymore. It’s apparent they have the mentality that “if I can’t have them to myself then NOBODY can have them” because they’ll all get sick and die. How about selling THAT to the landowners?

 

[seeth07]

Then we’ll take it seriously, won’t we @seeth07

I signed up to be the first human to get it and I'm trying so hard to be the lab dummy for them and it ain't working! I'm working on two positives in my freezer right now

 

[Flatbrimmer]

I signed up to be the first human to get it and I'm trying so hard to be the lab dummy for them and it ain't working! I'm working on two positives in my freezer right now

You’re crazy, dude!
That’s funny shiz right there…..

 

[Hunting Wife]

I’m not going to get into one of your contests of who can cite the most studies and what scientific evidence I have to support my opinion just so you can show off your superior intellect as a game department employee. I can’t regurgitate study information like you do.

It has nothing to do with regurgitating, showing off, or superior intellect. But facts matter, and if we’re going to start debating sound management, particularly estimating effects of management on populations and thresholds to support our opinion, in my world at least, it’s a pretty basic requirement to provide the supporting information. Sorry it offends you.

Bringing things back to the subject of this thread, this step also largely gets ignored by the sponsors bringing these management bills forward in the legislature, and is why we end up with crappy bills that dictate ineffective or inappropriate management that usually doesn’t adequately address the problem it is supposed to solve.

 

[SAJ-99]

Likely so and I would argue it's NOT sound management based on about everything I know about sound management and what that looks like.

Also, we can disagree all we want, but like I said I think you're going to have a hard convincing anyone a den full of dead wolf pups is anything close to sound management.

Its almost assured that its going to happen sooner or later.

Already did it seems.

Loading…

amp.idahostatesman.com

 

[cgasner1]

Already did it seems.

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amp.idahostatesman.com

To some sense people are predictable I’m not surprised at all. The bounty may have played a part of it but I could still see it happening a month later when they are hanging outside of the den

 

[Forkyfinder]

It has nothing to do with regurgitating, showing off, or superior intellect. But facts matter, and if we’re going to start debating sound management, particularly estimating effects of management on populations and thresholds to support our opinion, in my world at least, it’s a pretty basic requirement to provide the supporting information. Sorry it offends you.

Facts/studies/science matters to a coherent convincing as does emperical evidence. Can you refute his point about his point about idaho populations?

 

[Deleted member 53219]

I understood buzzh's comment to be hunting anything year round in relation to optics.


And - i like to shoot prarie dogs occasionally - and I dont think theres anything wrong with it. Theyre good target practice. Open to being wrong - but they were a long ways from sparce where i was.

Yeah that’s what I was getting at too, thanks

 

[SAJ-99]

To some sense people are predictable I’m not surprised at all. The bounty may have played a part of it but I could still see it happening a month later when they are hanging outside of the den

Sure. But it isn’t a good look either way. Hunters have a problem spending too much fighting the “antis” and not enough time trying to get non-hunters on their side.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Facts/studies/science matters to a coherent convincing as does emperical evidence. Can you refute his point about his point about idaho populations?

Well, I would say that the precedent and history of unregulated wolf harvest in the lower 48 that led to extirpation and subsequent listing of wolves in most of their range, including Idaho, in the first place suggests that unregulated killing should be examined with a healthy dose of skepticism. The fact is that this pattern of over exploitation of a wide variety of species in our history, driven by any number of political, social, or economic factors, led to bad outcomes that eventually instigated our adoption of modern regulated harvest management. I believe the HT audience is well-enough versed in this history that a bunch of citations aren’t necessary here, but perhaps I’m mistaken. But this history, to me, suggests that unregulated hunting/killing of wolves is not likely to be a recipe for successful management.

I stated no opinion specific to Idaho’s current wolf management because I’m not familiar with it. What I did say is that I am not aware of any instance of unregulated hunting being implemented successfully to manage wolves, though it appears @Elktrack is. I was legitimately curious to read up on such a scenario as perhaps it would alter my perspective but it seems that asking for supporting info is an offensive sign of intellectual superiority, rather than a hallmark of healthy debate.

Done with this derail.

 

[huntin24/7]

Just saw on Facebook hb 133 in regards to mandatory reporting being discussed on hunting Montana. After reading comments on that and numerous other wildlife/hunting related topics over the last year, I realize I have greatly underestimated just how little regard the average MT resident hunter has for wildlife and proper management. Any positive change is going to be an absolute mountain to overcome with how little most of these guys understand or care about the resources. I have even more appreciation for what you guys have been doing and gone through this last year in particular.

 

[Labman]

Perhaps I’m the only one that feels this way?
Just my opinion.

Nope, I’m right there with ya. You’re spot on with your opinion. The silent majority in MT is with you too. 8x the minimum required is too damn many. Hopefully those bills pass, or at least some form of them. Regardless of what we are allowed to do we won’t ever come close to 150 and 15 unless we enter a time warp and go back to using poison. Even if we have nothing holding us back we won’t ever come close to 450 either.