MLB

[Irrelevant]

If we just look at the champion we have: 3

Anyone remember who represented the NL in the 2023 WS? Arizona, #22 that year. Point is, teams can be competitive with lower salaries. General management is just as important as bankroll.

even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. That is not the basis for a professional competitive basis.

 

[Brittany Chukarman]

Again... hold my beer.

The Mariners started in 1977, they have had 7 total "good" years in that 48 year period. '95-2002
We have active members of HT that weren't born the last time the Mariners were good.

True, but we also got to watch Junior, Edgar, Big Unit, Ichiro, Felix ,etc.
I'll still watch them.

 

[Oak]

even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. That is not the basis for a professional competitive basis.
View attachment 364562

Have any solutions other than a salary cap? Seems the kneejerk solution is always to push the top down instead of to pull the bottom up. How do we compel the owners who are spending the least to do more? Don't forget, I'm in CO and a Rockies fan as well. The Monforts are sitting on a cash cow and investing very little in the team. Why should they? Last year, the Rockies were 15th in attendance, 17th in payroll, and 29th in record. And I realize that I'm part of the problem, but without cable, I pay extra to be able to watch Rockies games in CO, because I'm a baseball fan.

 

[seeth07]

While true, the argument to be made is about team being able to be competitive over a duration with lower salaries which is an extreme challenge.

I know the Brew Crew well is it is probably the best example of this. Their management and ability to find and craft and raise ball players up through the minors has to likely be one of the best in the big leagues. These players get continually tossed into the Majors and shine and make the team at least competitive for what has been quite a long stretch now but they struggle to keep these stars around. They just simply can't afford them because they can't compete with other offers they are receiving. And it only makes them competitive, not enough to really compete well enough at the end to actually make the WS.

So although I made this point, I do need to retract it a bit after talking in depth on this subject with my brother who is a way bigger fan than I am (although I do consider myself a pretty big fan) with heavy baseball experience (he still plays semi pro locally).

The Brew Crew does manage to keep a few great players around and although we are never competitive enough to be considered true contenders for a WS Pennant, Mark Attanasio has been doing something very right since 2004 since he took over to make baseball exciting and establish a winning season as an expectation for this fan base. There is something in the culture that kept Uecker here as a lifetime Brewer (heck maybe he alone was the culture). Players like Braun, Woodruff, Yelich come to mind as big time stars that spent most of their time in MKE and choosing to stay over a bigger payday elsewhere.

So perhaps @Oak is right, its not all salary to guaruntee a WS Pennant - it just makes it easier.

 

[seeth07]

Have any solutions other than a salary cap? Seems the kneejerk solution is always to push the top down instead of to pull the bottom up. How do we compel the owners who are spending the least to do more? Don't forget, I'm in CO and a Rockies fan as well. The Monforts are sitting on a cash cow and investing very little in the team. Why should they? Last year, the Rockies were 15th in attendance, 17th in payroll, and 29th in record. And I realize that I'm part of the problem, but without cable, I pay extra to be able to watch Rockies games in CO, because I'm a baseball fan.

Do you have anything handy that shows revenue (ideally net not counting salaries) per team? I'd love to compare that number to amount spent on salaries

 

[Oak]

Do you have anything handy that shows revenue (ideally net not counting salaries) per team? I'd love to compare that number to amount spent on salaries

You make a good point about teams’ ability to generate revenue. Here’s what I found in a quick search. Interesting that the article suggests a “salary floor” instead of a salary cap.

How generous, or cheap, is your favorite MLB team's owner?

This is one of the most talent-laden World Series matchups in recent history.The New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers were the No. 1 seeds in their respective leagues, the first time top seeds have met in the championship round, in a full season, since 2017. The rosters are loaded with...

www.thescore.com

 

[SwaggyD]

I’m not gonna Google it, but how does the revenue sharing in mlb work?

 

[beagle001]

I’m not gonna Google it, but how does the revenue sharing in mlb work?

I don’t know all of the ins and outs, but it’s got more to do with market size than actual spending, and then there are bits that deal with MLB Advanced Media etc. I’ve heard things explained on podcasts before but been a minute. I think Effectively Wild has covered it a few times

 

[beagle001]

The Brew Crew does manage to keep a few great players around and although we are never competitive enough to be considered true contenders for a WS Pennant, Mark Attanasio has been doing something very right since 2004 since he took over to make baseball exciting and establish a winning season as an expectation for this fan base.

While I agree Attanasio has been pretty good, I would LOVE for him to open the books just a little more when there is a chance to make a difference. Things have been pretty tight since the Yelich extension when they had real opportunity to push the chips in. The rest of the division is improving (minus the Cardinals, thank God) and the Crew is lucky that the Cubs feign poverty since their slide from grace after the ‘16 WS

 

[beagle001]

If you guys are interested, I made this Picker league. $5 entry and (assuming we get enough) the idea is to pay $10 out to top 10% of the league and the winner takes the rest.
The gist of it is you have 31 roster spots- expanded rotisserie lineups- and $280 auction dollars to pick your lineup. The values are based on NFBC values, if you’re curious. There are no in-season moves or anything like that. Just sit back and watch all season long

Fantrax

Fantrax, The Home of Fantasy Sports

www.fantrax.com

 

[Southern Elk]

Just a little over a week until opening day. I guess I’m one of the few that would say baseball is my favorite sport. For those complaining about not being able to watch games, the MLB network package is great. For like $120 per year, you can watch the vast majority of games for every team. Last year I watched 90% of the Braves games. I normally watch on my iPad or phone, so that I don’t have to sit in front of the TV.

I’m a 80s/90s kid who grew up watching Sports Center highlights. MLB does highlights for every game and one big highlight reel for all of the games.

 

[seeth07]

While I agree Attanasio has been pretty good, I would LOVE for him to open the books just a little more when there is a chance to make a difference. Things have been pretty tight since the Yelich extension when they had real opportunity to push the chips in. The rest of the division is improving (minus the Cardinals, thank God) and the Crew is lucky that the Cubs feign poverty since their slide from grace after the ‘16 WS

That is why I asked about revenue and payroll. The Crew is actually not very greedy compared to a lot of teams around them. So I don't know how much more he can really open up the books. They still have other bills to pay. Remember this is revenue, not profit.

 

[seeth07]

You make a good point about teams’ ability to generate revenue. Here’s what I found in a quick search. Interesting that the article suggests a “salary floor” instead of a salary cap.

How generous, or cheap, is your favorite MLB team's owner?

This is one of the most talent-laden World Series matchups in recent history.The New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers were the No. 1 seeds in their respective leagues, the first time top seeds have met in the championship round, in a full season, since 2017. The rosters are loaded with...

www.thescore.com

I like the idea of reworking the luxury tax instead. Have a soft salary cap that if exceeded you are taxed on the amount that you go over and then provide redistribution of a portion of that tax back to all of the teams under the soft cap based on something like this "scrooge" index. So those that are spending and just don't have the revenue could get more of this "bonus tax money" to help them out even more. Would provide a lot of owner incentive to put money into their players

 

[Wild Bill]

Just a little over a week until opening day.

What are you talking about? They opened up in Tokyo the other day!

For those complaining about not being able to watch games, the MLB network package is great. For like $120 per year, you can watch the vast majority of games for every team.

I've had the full package a few different times, and it is nice to be able to watch highlights or put on a random game, but again only valid if you're not blacked out from your team. Just look at all this dumbassery. The poor Iowegians can't watch the Twins, Brewers, White Sox, Cubs, Royals, and Cards. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal to folks that root for a non-local team, but it's a major deal for others. Why can't a Minnesotan stream Twins games but a Twins fan in about 45 other states can?

 

[seeth07]

What are you talking about? They opened up in Tokyo the other day!


I've had the full package a few different times, and it is nice to be able to watch highlights or put on a random game, but again only valid if you're not blacked out from your team. Just look at all this dumbassery. The poor Iowegians can't watch the Twins, Brewers, White Sox, Cubs, Royals, and Cards. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal to folks that root for a non-local team, but it's a major deal for others. Why can't a Minnesotan stream Twins games but a Twins fan in about 45 other states can?

View attachment 364655

This happens in all sports and the TV viewing area rights are all pure BS.

For the NHL, there are two NHL stadiums (the Blackhawks and Red Wings) that by air miles are closer to me than the Wild yet it is only the Wild that is blacked out for me and NOT the Blackhawks or the Red Wings. Pure stupidity.

 

[Irrelevant]

Have any solutions other than a salary cap?

No, not really. Though the salary floor is intriguing.
Like most Mariner's fans, I generally use my baseball energy to just bitch about the ownership.

 

[Wild Bill]

I like the idea of reworking the luxury tax instead. Have a soft salary cap that if exceeded you are taxed on the amount that you go over and then provide redistribution of a portion of that tax back to all of the teams under the soft cap based on something like this "scrooge" index. So those that are spending and just don't have the revenue could get more of this "bonus tax money" to help them out even more. Would provide a lot of owner incentive to put money into their players

That sounds all well intended, but it will never work. The owners would be the ones that need to approve this and there is never going to be owners who will volunteer any of their money be redistributed to other teams.

If you want more of a soft cap, I think the NBA has a pretty good thing figured out. It can be confusing as hell at times, but they have Max and Super Max contracts that are the top salaries players can make, and it's also structured to where the team that already has the player under contract can offer more money than any other team which incentivizes players to stay with their teams and keeps smaller market teams in the mix. They also have a first and second "apron" which is similar to a luxury tax, but also puts restrictions on transactions. Like you can't take on a larger contract than you're sending out in a trade if you're in an apron, or you can't sign certain FA contracts like vet league minimums. Basically, teams only want to be in the aprons if you're a ready built championship contender because you're hampered in other ways.

Like I said, it can be confusing as hell, but it helps keep parity and helps small market teams.

Have any solutions other than a salary cap? Seems the kneejerk solution is always to push the top down instead of to pull the bottom up.

I have to wonder why baseball fans are always so against a salary cap? The quality of play isn't going to go down. If anything it will go up around the league as better players are more evenly distributed on the landscape. Why are baseball fans okay with the yankees and dodgers and red sox and whoever else just blowing all the other teams out of the water financially? Why is suppressing the top always such a bad thing? I think a salary floor would be beneficial, but I don't think it would solve the issues that a cap would.

The NFL has it all figured out and I'm shocked no other leagues have tried to mimic them.

The NFL's salary cap has made it so a team in a smaller market like Buffalo, or Jacksonville, or GB can compete on the same field as the NY teams and the LA teams and Dallas and all the massive markets. The NFL has every other league strung up by the nuts because it's exciting. You have about 6 teams pop up every year and overachieve and play well. You don't get that in baseball to the extent you do in football.

Also, NFL has FA movement that means something. Teams can't afford to keep all their talent so they have to let guys walk. Your most exciting players have a chance to go to a new team and play well and get another contract and maybe play for a different team and move and succeed. In baseball your best players always hit FA, which is fine but then they wait months and months and draw everything out and then on a random Wednesday in December sign a 17 year deal and never hit the market again. Your best players in baseball rarely move or hit FA, which to me is a big part of baseball's boringness. NFL has turned their FA into a media frenzy that dominates a couple weeks in March, months away from any meaningful football.

 

[Southern Elk]