I watched a documentary on Coast Guard shooters. They were simulating taking out engines on speeding boats on the ocean from a helicopter. There was a woman that was fricken deadly. mtmuley
Milk jug challenge.
- Thread starter mtmuley
- Start date
Doublecluck
Well-known member
Think I saw the same one. I do think it’s a common misconception though that folks with military or LE background are somehow extraordinarily qualified for these marksmanship challenges. Most would probably be surprised how little some of those disciplines actually put rounds down range. I mean compared to the average population sure. But when you look in to shooting sport disciplines of say 3 gun or prs or nrl. Yea sure some of those folks are ex military/LE, but seems like there are just as many who are accountant's and contractors and doctors etc. Some are kids. I mean the average le sniper engagement is like 70 yards, military in combat 3-600? Maybe? Hunting? 150-200? Who knows. Prs/NRL match 300-1k.
I shot a milk jug on a 4x4 sheet of plywood at 1k years ago. Thought I was the chit. lol. Took like 4 or 5 rds. Didn’t even own a chronograph, Had to keep driving down there and see where I hit on the plywood. 7 mm REM 700 “long range” with a vortex hst. lol. Since then I’ve shot a lot more, barrels worth of rounds a year. I’ve shot some matches and it’s pretty humbling to see the class of shooters that exist out there even at the local level. But every shooter should just go out and try to be better than they were the last time they shot. You should definitely get out and do it, if it’s milk jugs in your back yard or national event it’s going to make you an exceptionally better shooter.
All I know is of the people I’ve seen shoot who are really good, they probably aren’t commenting on some dudes YouTube channel, and I’m positive a 300 wm wouldn’t be the gun they choose to go shoot 100 milk jugs in a sage flat.
Last edited:
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Tannerite in an opened door dryer...conditions favorable.
Doublecluck
Well-known member
I hope that wasn’t your dryer I picked up from the Logan state land?
noharleyyet
Well-known member
...thank you?
std7mag
Well-known member
Bowling pins work well also.
Picked up a bunch from the local alley. Their old used ones were going for 25¢ each.
Dropped $10 on them.
Things hold up really well!!
Shoot everything from .410 with #7.5 shot through 7mm WBY at them.
Harder to hit than a milk jug.
When done, pick them up and throw them in a box for next time.
Picked up a bunch from the local alley. Their old used ones were going for 25¢ each.
Dropped $10 on them.
Things hold up really well!!
Shoot everything from .410 with #7.5 shot through 7mm WBY at them.
Harder to hit than a milk jug.
When done, pick them up and throw them in a box for next time.
Done milk jugs a couple times. Also balloons work too if it’s not too windy. I usually just put a couple 10” steel plates and fence posts on my pack frame and hike to various points and put them out. Then walk to different spots with rifle to change the distances
longbow51
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2023
- Messages
- 1,054
Well, he's using The Force, so there's that. "Mount your scope backwards, and put your lens caps on, Commander..."
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Separating brass from fmj...willy nilly
antelopedundee
Well-known member
Checkout clerk "Would you like your milk in a bag"?
Me/you "No, I'll just keep it in the jug".
Me/you "No, I'll just keep it in the jug".
I walked into my house yesterday and my son was watching a variant of the milk jug challenge. The rules for that test looked weird to me.
It was a time test at relatively easy ranges, starting at 145 and maxing out around 500 (I’m not saying 500 is easy). It was a ten target timed shoot. All had dial scopes.
My first thought was they are going to heat up the barrels and changing the point of impact of the rifles at longer ranges. It’s exactly what happened. They’d hit one or two out of three early and then just be slinging lead. I saw lots of bad shooting positions and bad form.
They did a second contest later at longer distances including a quick workout in between. Same story. A hit or two early and then chaos.
I know this is only one example with a small group of guys but whatever they are learning on YouTube on how to shoot a rifle isn’t working.
It was a time test at relatively easy ranges, starting at 145 and maxing out around 500 (I’m not saying 500 is easy). It was a ten target timed shoot. All had dial scopes.
My first thought was they are going to heat up the barrels and changing the point of impact of the rifles at longer ranges. It’s exactly what happened. They’d hit one or two out of three early and then just be slinging lead. I saw lots of bad shooting positions and bad form.
They did a second contest later at longer distances including a quick workout in between. Same story. A hit or two early and then chaos.
I know this is only one example with a small group of guys but whatever they are learning on YouTube on how to shoot a rifle isn’t working.
Hadn’t even thought about the shot stringing, honestly. Great point. I definitely overthink getting my barrel hot, but it’s because of ruining the throat, not dispersion.
Wind Gypsy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,057
What kind of firing schedule these guys got? A good barrel isn’t going to walk from getting a little hot. Mirage might bite ya though.
There seems to be a variety of "challenges". I still think cold bore is the best test. mtmuley
I’ve gotten groups opening/walking from heat with Bartleins installed by GAP before. The only two barrels I haven’t had with that problem were a Preferred and the current Proof I have on my 280 AI, though the latter might have a shift from cold bore. Haven’t tested enough.
grizzly63
Well-known member
The thicker the barrel, the less problems is my thought. Just gotta be man enough to carry it. And try to not shoot off hand if you can.
Wind Gypsy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,057
I believe and know that there's a bunch of barrels out there that shoot worse or to a different POI after heating up but I also think it's far over played. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was a factor in these tests with factory CVAs, savages, and a 300 WM tikka in use. I think there's lots of people who shoot a good 3 shot group and then when more rounds are added to it and it get's bigger, they blame the hot barrel rather than accept the fact when more rounds get added the actual capabilities of a setup are revealed. Not saying @nhenry is doing that but I am curious how he diagnosed that with the GAP chambered bartleins. That said, it's entirely possible for a GAP chambered bartlein to fall outside of what I would consider a "good barrel". Seems everyone throws an occasional dud.
I had a short stint at the range today and shot 3 rifles. A heavy barreled 6.5x47 gamer gun, a factory browning x-bolt stalker 300 wsm with 200 grain eldx on top of an over book max powder charge, and a tikka with a #4 benchmark 6 creed barrel (slightly lighter than a bartlein 2b contour at this length). They all got hot and they all stacked bullets right into the expected POI and mechanical ability of the system when hot. Shots 16-20 with the tikka were with a different bullet ($0.16 hornady 2nds) and with the barrel quite hot stacked 4 into 1 hole and the 5th 1/4" out.
There's definitely something to the cold shooter and cold bore being the "truest" representation of what matters for hunting. The problem is its not realistic for most people to get significant volume of cold bore/cold shooter shots unless they can shoot at home. Since any rifle/barrel worth keeping to me has the same general mechanical precision and POI whether it's hot or cold, seems we can collect a lot more data and get a lot more experience by not hiding behind the cold bore excuse. IMO lots of hunters with their hard kicking hunting rifles would rather blame hot barrels than actually put a bunch of rounds through their rifles.
I had a short stint at the range today and shot 3 rifles. A heavy barreled 6.5x47 gamer gun, a factory browning x-bolt stalker 300 wsm with 200 grain eldx on top of an over book max powder charge, and a tikka with a #4 benchmark 6 creed barrel (slightly lighter than a bartlein 2b contour at this length). They all got hot and they all stacked bullets right into the expected POI and mechanical ability of the system when hot. Shots 16-20 with the tikka were with a different bullet ($0.16 hornady 2nds) and with the barrel quite hot stacked 4 into 1 hole and the 5th 1/4" out.
There's definitely something to the cold shooter and cold bore being the "truest" representation of what matters for hunting. The problem is its not realistic for most people to get significant volume of cold bore/cold shooter shots unless they can shoot at home. Since any rifle/barrel worth keeping to me has the same general mechanical precision and POI whether it's hot or cold, seems we can collect a lot more data and get a lot more experience by not hiding behind the cold bore excuse. IMO lots of hunters with their hard kicking hunting rifles would rather blame hot barrels than actually put a bunch of rounds through their rifles.
Last edited:
I don't observe any precision or point of impact shifts with my rifles as they heat up, and I heat them up plenty.
Shot a regular PRS 1 day match yesterday with a hunting rifle wearing a PVA Osprey 2b contour, a decent barrel but still a button rifled barrel. 10 shot strings in 2 minutes, they get pretty warm depending on the weather. I had zero misses I could reasonably attribute to mechanical precision. I got it WAY hotter the day before doing 80 rounds in about an hour and fifteen minutes, and everything held up on paper doing that too.
In my experience with other decent barrels I can't recall one acting up due to reasonable heat. Now, 30 rounds in 2 minutes on a 90 degree day with a barrel that started hot, I've seen some weirdness there.
Shot a regular PRS 1 day match yesterday with a hunting rifle wearing a PVA Osprey 2b contour, a decent barrel but still a button rifled barrel. 10 shot strings in 2 minutes, they get pretty warm depending on the weather. I had zero misses I could reasonably attribute to mechanical precision. I got it WAY hotter the day before doing 80 rounds in about an hour and fifteen minutes, and everything held up on paper doing that too.
In my experience with other decent barrels I can't recall one acting up due to reasonable heat. Now, 30 rounds in 2 minutes on a 90 degree day with a barrel that started hot, I've seen some weirdness there.
Not all shooters that use hard kickers are the same. mtmuley
It was an acquaintance’s 6 GT PRS rifle. As it got hotter the POI shifted up and right. Being as it kicked like a gnat, we attributed it to heat. Might have been a bad barrel like you said, but I find that unlikely. Certainly had nothing to do with the craftsmanship of the rifle.
