Looks like....

[JohnCushman]

What would Brady have done if he did play back in the 70's when QB's called their own plays and didn't have a tuck rule or safety rules about hits to the head or below the knees? Brady is good because of a system in place, but I don't think there would be GOAT talk if he had to do it on his own. Iagree about not judging a QB by his rings. Dan Merino comes to mind. One of the greatest in the early 80's system without a ring. I'm also a firm believer that a QB is only as good as the players he has around him. Donovan Mcnabb was a really good QB, but didn't have receivers or a running game worth a crap, so the blame for poor stats fell on his shoulders. Give a QB good receivers and an O line and a running game, and of course their stats will be good.

 

[BlakeA]

I dislike the Pats but it is hard not to respect what they have done as an organization. I think both Bill and Brady have big contributions to why.

QUOTE]

Actually it's pretty easy if you believe in ethics and fair play. It's hard TO respect an organization that has had constant scandals since the beginning of their "dynasty"....and you are exactly right, both Bill and Brady have contributed greatly to those. The word respect is about the last thing that comes to mind when the New England Patriots are brought up.

 

[Jamen]

I respect their system of winning.

 

[bobbydean]

Patriots are the G.O.A.T. at cheating!

 

[BlakeA]

I respect their system of winning.

Good for you. I don't care for systems of organizations that have had suspensions due to cheating in playoff games, stolen playbooks, huge fines for videoing walk throughs and opposing teams practices, forfeited high draft picks as punishment for cheating, force the commissioner to BURN the tapes because they are so bad he couldn't imagine the mainstream media getting ahold of them, force the NFL to make multiple rule changes due to the constant teetering on fair/unfair plays, and all the other excess B.S. Respect that way of winning? No thanks.

 

[targetpanic]

BlakeA...I'm going off memory (please fact check if necessary) but many of the players you listed Welker, Dillon, Moss, TO were other teams throw aways or problem children. They came to New England with the expectation that they would become model citizens and would follow Bill's program. They came here for a specific reason or with a specific purpose in mind. You take almost any player and put him in Bill's system or any other coach's system and he will be more productive and a better player in Bill's system. Anyone who plays for him will be better for it! Well except for Chad Johnson...that really didn't work out. His players are football smart first and foremost before their physical attributes (apparently it doesn't hurt if you went to Rutgers or played Lacrosse either LOL), if the players can't grasp complex schemes they aren't gonna be here long.

 

[BlakeA]

BlakeA...I'm going off memory (please fact check if necessary) but many of the players you listed Welker, Dillon, Moss, TO were other teams throw aways or problem children. They came to New England with the expectation that they would become model citizens and would follow Bill's program. They came here for a specific reason or with a specific purpose in mind. You take almost any player and put him in Bill's system or any other coach's system and he will be more productive and a better player in Bill's system. Anyone who plays for him will be better for it! Well except for Chad Johnson...that really didn't work out. His players are football smart first and foremost before their physical attributes (apparently it doesn't hurt if you went to Rutgers or played Lacrosse either LOL), if the players can't grasp complex schemes they aren't gonna be here long.

Yep. Bill's program has been 2nd to none when it comes to plugging in players there is no denying that and I'm not debating that at all. In fact, that's the exact reason why Brady can't possibly be the G.O.A.T. Bill's system made Matt Cassel look like a pro bowler and went 10-6. They have won solely because of Bill's system. A system that has been highly successful and unethical. Respect them? No thanks. Think that Brady is the G.O.A.T. and "the best I've seen in my lifetime" Nope. Can't be the G.O.A.T. if you are replaceable. Which is exactly what Tom Brady is in that system. When he is suspended or injured, Bill and the boys keep on rolling. Fact.

 

[Blacktailbc]

In case you failed to read each post, i will repeat myself....
I never compared TO to Nelson, you did.
TO was great, one of the best. He is clearly not in the HOF because he was a basket case, and almost universally disliked. It is not because of his body of work, but you want to cherry pick the guy that is not in because of attitude.
Lets compare Nelson to let's say......Steve Largent. One of the greats.....Hall of Famer.
Nelson's first 7 yrs (starting in 2010, he played 2 yrs before but only started 2 games total)
YDS- 7162 TD-65
Steve Largent- YDS- 6534 TD-49
How about Cris Carter. Another HOF WR. One of the greats. His first 7 yrs, starting in 88, since he didn't start any games in 87.
Yds- 5749
TD- 47
You are completely right, it is a stretch to call Nelson a borderline HOF player. :hump: But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your agenda.
Rodgers has one less playoff win than Flacco. Should have stated that more clearly.

 

[BlakeA]

In case you failed to read each post, i will repeat myself....
I never compared TO to Nelson, you did.
TO was great, one of the best. He is clearly not in the HOF because he was a basket case, and almost universally disliked. It is not because of his body of work, but you want to cherry pick the guy that is not in because of attitude.
Lets compare Nelson to let's say......Steve Largent. One of the greats.....Hall of Famer.
Nelson's first 7 yrs (starting in 2010, he played 2 yrs before but only started 2 games total)
YDS- 7162 TD-65
Steve Largent- YDS- 6534 TD-49
How about Cris Carter. Another HOF WR. One of the greats. His first 7 yrs, starting in 88, since he didn't start any games in 87.
Yds- 5749
TD- 47
You are completely right, it is a stretch to call Nelson a borderline HOF player. :hump: But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your agenda.
Rodgers has one less playoff win than Flacco. Should have stated that more clearly.

Now you are picking an choosing specific time frames within a players career to compare? This is too good.

Steve Largent career stats: 819 receptions, 13,089 receiving yards, and 100 TD's. 7 time pro bowl selection along with 1 all pro selection.

Cris Carter career stats: 1,101 receptions, 13,899 receiving yards, and 130 TD's. 8x pro bowl selection along with 2 all pro selections.

Jordy Nelson: 550 receptions, 7,848 receiving yards, and 69 TD's. 1.......ONE pro bowl selection.

Also, Nelson at the young age of 33 this May has peaked and has maybe 1 productive year left in him before they replace him. He won't even sniff your two HOF examples. It's embarrassing even having this conversation to be honest. It's a slap in the face to both Largent and Carter to mention Nelson as being "right there with em". Get real man.

 

[Festus]

 

[JLS]

^thats funny!

 

[mtmuley]

I wonder who BlakeA wants to win? mtmuley

 

[noharleyyet]

View attachment 79767

Sure seems that way....not a philly fan either.

Fox just signed a 5 year deal for TNF averaging 660 mil per year. Guess they're not skeptical of fan disenchantment.