Looks like....
- Thread starter mtmuley
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BlakeA
Well-known member
How many Super Bowls have they won without Brady? Brady has more Super Bowl rings than Manning, Rogers and Brees COMBINED! rogers, Brees and Manning were healthy for the majority of their career.
Let's flip the question....how many more super bowl victories would Brady have with the type of receivers Rogers has had for his career?
You conveniently ignore the fact that the Giants needed a guy to make a catch against his helmet to beat them. Or that Brady executed the greatest comeback in super bowl history. Little things decide games. A fluke here or there doesn't explain how a guy wins 5 Super Bowls. This type of consistency is no fluke and doesn't happen without Brady.
Fun discussion. I suspect we will never agree on this and that's fine by me.
1.) I'm not comparing number of rings between Brady and others. Obviously Brady leads everyone in that category. Are you saying Manning, Rodgers, Brees, or Ben couldn't replace him and have just as many rings if they were in that system their entire career with Bill as the architect?
2.) Yeah. Let's talk receivers. Rodgers has played with a washed up Donald Driver, James Jones who was nobody before and after GB, Jordy Nelson (2nd round pick) Randall Cobb, Davante Adams, and Greg Jennings another 2nd round pick. None of those players require a double team or have been selected to an All Pro team. Rodgers ONE legitimate tight end was Jermichael Finley and he retired after being partially paralyzed due a hit to the head. Also, has Rodgers ever had a half decent running back? Eddie Lacy? John Kuhn? James Starks? They have new 5th rounders-UDFA's every year so its hard for me to even remember them all?
Let's look at who Brady has been able to throw the ball to. Randy Moss (top 5 receiver all time) Gronk (will go down as the greatest TE in history) Wes Welker (one of the greatest slot recievers of all time) Terry Glenn (dominate 1st rounder who had a great career) Deion Branch Pro Bowl 2nd rounder and Super Bowl MVP (I think) Aaron Hernandez (we all know what happened to him) Martellous Bennet, Benjamin Watson. They also acquired Brandon Cooks who is their leading receiver this year. He was a top 20 pick 3 years ago.
Running backs, Fred Taylor, Steven Jackson, Corey Dillon, Laurence Maroney (1st rounder) and about 10 other play makers throughout the years.
3.) I don't think you are giving their defense special teams, and coaching enough credit for their super bowls. Bill is their G.O.A.T. Brady is replaceable. Bill is not.
4.) Probably not
Not a Packers fan BTW.
targetpanic
Well-known member
I'm a New England boy through and through...I just can't wrap my head around the amount of disdain there is towards the Pats from everybody outside of New England...What they have accomplished as an organization is nothing short of amazing. If people don't believe that they are simply lying to themselves. They are the best owner/coach/player trio together and arguably the best owners/coach/player individually as well.
targetpanic
Well-known member
LOL...yeah THAT was the reason they've won all the Superbowls
BlakeA
Well-known member
It's pretty simple for me. Can't speak about others and why they can't stand your organization. For me, it's the constant scandal that has clouded above them since day one. Bill is constantly pushing the limits on "legal" play. How many rule changes have we seen the NFL make the following offseason due to them constantly living on the edge of what's legal and what's not? Between taking opposing teams playbooks, videoing opposing teams practices and walk throughs, deflating footballs, the "deception" game against Baltimore which they should have lost (using formations in the 4th quarter that did not give opposing teams time to identify eligible and ineligible receivers). Every year there is something new with that team. They played the 2nd best pass rushing team in the league yesterday and had one penalty. One. Maybe they are that good at coaching that their O-line never holds especially against All-Pro pass rushers. How many calls went their way to decide games or in big moments of games this year and every year? Gronk gets suspended ONE game for going Stone Cold Steve Austin and assaulting a defenseless guy on the ground. Could have broke his neck. Do you know why he only got one game? Because they played Pittsburgh 2 weeks after (had 2 penalties for 4 yards that game on the road) and the NFL isn't dumb. They need their stars for hyped up primetime games. It's pathetic. I won't be watching the super bowl but I'm looking forward to reading about what New England was able to do for this one. Should be a doozy!
noharleyyet
Well-known member
....Willis?
bobbydean
Well-known member
I work nights 8 pm to 8 am. A 1 pm kickoff is my worst schedule.
I waited to see Brady lose. I kept watching and got happy until the 4th. Referees dictated the win. I lost 4 hours of sleep and mad at myself for wasting my time. I almost think the NFL wanted a Patriot win.
It was a long night and I will not make the same mistake for the Super Bowl
I waited to see Brady lose. I kept watching and got happy until the 4th. Referees dictated the win. I lost 4 hours of sleep and mad at myself for wasting my time. I almost think the NFL wanted a Patriot win.
It was a long night and I will not make the same mistake for the Super Bowl
targetpanic
Well-known member
Great response. Not going to pretend that I agree with any of it but it's a great response none the less. The fact that most of the coaching vacancies this year are being filled by people with roots in the Pats organization should be a huge wake up call that owner's/GMs are realizing that the Patriot coaching and their attention to detail needs to be copied if they want to compete.
LuketheDog
Well-known member
Wentz seems like a good guy, but Eagles fans are the new bottom of the barrel. I didn't care who won between them and the Vikings, but after seeing the Philly idiots throwing full, unopened beer cans at the Minnesota folks, I think they deserve a proper butt-whooping in the SB...
Fug you Tom Brady
BlakeA
Well-known member
There isn't really anything that you have to agree with. Those are all facts. Not only have they been fined multiple times but they have lost draft picks and their G.O.A.T. QB was suspended a quarter of the season. That doesn't happen if it all that I mentioned was opinion. Goodell BURNED the spygate tapes because they were so bad. I'm supposed to respect "all that they have accomplished"? Get real.
Teams have been filling their vacancies for years with guys that Bill has had on staff. I can't think of one that has been successful yet? In fact, most are fired within 3-4 years whether they are HC, OC, or DC.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Urban Dic is obsolete.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Thanks for the reminder....
Blake.....I don't want facts to get in the way of a good discussion, but most of the Green Bay receivers you mentioned have in fact been to pro bowls. A couple of them have been to multiple pro bowls. I can't disagree more so I will gladly agree to disagree with virtually all of your points. Although Gronk is definitely the lone exception. He is absolutely elite and possibly the best to play that position. That said, they did play much of the game yesterday without him due to concussion, and managed to win.
Mostly due to my respect for Brady and Bellicheck, but also for the horrendous way Philly fans treated MN fans before and after yesterday's butt whooping, I will be pulling for the Patriots to win another title. Punching out-Ed
Mostly due to my respect for Brady and Bellicheck, but also for the horrendous way Philly fans treated MN fans before and after yesterday's butt whooping, I will be pulling for the Patriots to win another title. Punching out-Ed
Correct. The more I think about it, after seeing the beer-throwing a-holes and hearing stories from Vikes fans returning home, I'll be pulling for the Patriots if I end up watching the game. I've also heard Wentz is a top-notch guy, but I'd rather see a truck-load of dbags get their hearts broken than a good guy get a ring.
BlakeA
Well-known member
So you consider Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, and Randal Cobb great WR's? Come on. Jordy is a good player but do you think he keeps D coordinators up all night scheming for him? No. None of those 3 even get double teamed.
Since you want to compare, let's compare team defenses, special teams, and o-lines over each QB's career and tell me who dominates that comparison? The Green Bay Packers would be lucky to win 5 games a year if not for Rodgers....and they proved that this year. How can you deny that?
I agree, those fans were pretty ugly....
targetpanic
Well-known member
Or to look at it another way...Maybe with better defense, special teams and O-line coaching the Packers would not have to rely on 1 person to win games for them!
