Licensed Guide requirement for hunting

[MTTW]

Without the guide requirement the lower 48 sheep hunters would eat Alaska alive.

 

[tom338]

Not if they only sell X number of tags to hunt sheep

 

[MTTW]

Then you have the breaks. Good luck.

 

[406dn]

Without the guide requirement the lower 48 sheep hunters would eat Alaska alive.

If they were to ever remove the guide requirement,, the odds of drawing a license would take a dramatic change. It might even make the hunt largely out of reach for a different reason.

It is far easier to make a case to require a guide for non residents in very remote areas of Alaska than it is in the lower 48. It is very expensive to rescue a lost or injured hunter anywhere,, in Alaska even more so.

 

[peterk1234]

If they were to ever remove the guide requirement,, the odds of drawing a license would take a dramatic change. It might even make the hunt largely out of reach for a different reason.

It is far easier to make a case to require a guide for non residents in very remote areas of Alaska than it is in the lower 48. It is very expensive to rescue a lost or injured hunter anywhere,, in Alaska even more so.

They could put in place an insurance requirement. Far less costly for the hunter than an outfitter. I believe you can buy coverage for getting airlifted and it is not horribly costly.

 

[406dn]

They could put in place an insurance requirement. Far less costly for the hunter than an outfitter. I believe you can buy coverage for getting airlifted and it is not horribly costly.

It's far easier for the state to have a guide requirement and be done with it, compared to verifying several hundred individuals for having insurance, every year.

Face it, the guide requirement in Alaska is not changing anytime soon.

 

[tillicant]

I don't believe anyone should be required to hire a guide. I hunt with my wife, both over or near 60 yo, we take our trips as a vacation and generally do our homework. Spend entire early season prepping with a ongoing list and do our traveling on a budget. We usually try to find an outfitter, cabin style hunt . Getting harder to find.

 

[rustednuts]

If MT required a guide to hunt elk. I would probably skip MT all together. For that cost you could enter the guided pool in NM or buy a landowner’s tag in NM and have a lot better hunt.

 

[TWC]

Is there an email address for responding to this legislation?

 

[Valley1320]

Well a NR could do a DIY sheep for $2500 or less vs $18,000 on guided. I'd call that pretty cheap. You're right nothing is cheap, but a guy going up to hunt caribou off the haul road spends very little in our economy. We could argue it till the cows come home, but IMO I really think NR could spend more, and I'm to the point that I just don't care to defend cheap hunting anymore. Its a vacation...

I guess some of us arnt made of that kind of money and can't even think about being able to afford to pay a guide/outfitter

 

[Bambistew]

I guess some of us arnt made of that kind of money and can't even think about being able to afford to pay a guide/outfitter

You could move up and go for the price of a tank of gas. I mean we're a welfare state it should be easy to get a job and live here.

The states hold the wildlife in a trust for its citizens. Guide or no guide, a hunt out of state is a vacation. The cost is irrelevant. IMO. I wish it was cheaper to go to Hawaii.

Will a guide requirement really impact support to fund wildlife? 99.99% of hunters don't show up for anything except bitching about the price or availability of tags. Go to a management meeting sometime.

The older I get the less sympathetic I am to NR hunters who want it all.

 

[Valley1320]

You could move up and go for the price of a tank of gas. I mean we're a welfare state it should be easy to get a job and live here.

The states hold the wildlife in a trust for its citizens. Guide or no guide, a hunt out of state is a vacation. The cost is irrelevant. IMO. I wish it was cheaper to go to Hawaii.

Will a guide requirement really impact support to fund wildlife? 99.99% of hunters don't show up for anything except bitching about the price or availability of tags. Go to a management meeting sometime.

The older I get the less sympathetic I am to NR hunters who want it all.

I'm not saying I want it all, and my post was a little more pointed than I intended it and I was referring to more than jus Alaska and its sheep. I was referring to all states for hafting to have a guide for some of their North American game. It jus gets to me sometimes that some guys look at it that they think its just a rich man's game, and us middle of the road folks shouldn't even have a chance. And I'm not saying you think that, cuz I don't think you do. I'm jus throwing it out there. Ill shut up now. Lol

 

[blackdawg]

Mandatory guide requirements need to go the way of the dodo bird in the U.S. and Canada. Total bull dung saying people need someone to hold their hands when "big game hunting". I can go small game hunting, mountaineering ,fishing, peak bagging, white water rafting,backcountry skiing,wilderness horseback fishing, backpacking, sea kayaking,etc.,etc.., injury risking activities without insurance or a mandated guide virtually worldwide. It's a total political money grab, in a complete "buyer beware" situation that is state supported with no one being responsible or accountable for the "non-residents" fleecing which takes place all the time! Having hired and met a number of real tools that were "guides" or "outfitters" in Wyoming,Canada and Alaska formed my opinion by seeing their shady actions, so yes, bad taste in my mouth. Sure good outfitters and guides exist, have met/known a few but the person that doesn't want his hand held shouldn't be mandated to "pay" to play and risk his hard earned money when the odds of getting burned are rather good. My experience with "guides" and 'Outfitters' in Canada, Alaska and the U.S. for a variety of services has been at the best a positive experience only 50% of the time. With all the attacks going on today on a variety of fronts, more rules and regs to restrict hunting opportunity is going to be the death of the sport. Retention of those participating is much easier than recruiting new, "wealthy" individuals. At the pace game greed is exploding, I see the DIY peasants turning into poachers for shooting the "KINGS" game again very soon!

 

[SummitsCalling]

Also the guiding requirement effectively reduces the number of hunters hunting brown/grizzly bears, sheep, goats.
For example, about 2400 hunter report hunting Dall sheep each year and the harvest is about 800 sheep each year.
Non-residents harvest about 40-50 percent of the sheep each year.
With no guiding requirement for non-residents, the cost would be $1000-$3000 DYI compared to $18,000-$20,000 guided.
A non-resident sheep tag cost is free for non-resident military, $800 for non-resident non-military.

There isn't enough dall sheep that meet the requirements if the NR outfitter rule was lifted. You wanna see 30+ people in the field per maybe legal ram? What you seem to be missing is if that type of squeeze happened, transporter costs would skyrocket, my guess is 2-3x at a minimum. Considering prices are still on the rise despite covid. Yes you can walk in, but truth be told how many people in the lower 48 are even capable of hiking in 20+miles to get to a hunt area. On top of all of that, the dall sheep population has been in decline, just not legal ones.

tldr; more at play than you think.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Apples to apples here folks...

MT elk v. AK caribou

MT sheep v. AK sheep

 

[Gerald Martin]

Apples to apples here folks...

MT elk v. AK caribou

MT sheep v. AK sheep

Overcrowding is addressed by capping tag numbers.
I would gladly apply for 10-15 years for the chance to DIY a dall sheep.
I don’t see myself to ever be in a position to justify 20k$ (and rising)
for an outfitter.

 

[SaskHunter]

There isn't enough dall sheep that meet the requirements if the NR outfitter rule was lifted. You wanna see 30+ people in the field per maybe legal ram? What you seem to be missing is if that type of squeeze happened, transporter costs would skyrocket, my guess is 2-3x at a minimum. Considering prices are still on the rise despite covid. Yes you can walk in, but truth be told how many people in the lower 48 are even capable of hiking in 20+miles to get to a hunt area. On top of all of that, the dall sheep population has been in decline, just not legal ones.

tldr; more at play than you think.

But having a reasonable limited quota would limit this effect. I highly doubt AK would go OTC on the guided hunts. I don't see how transporter costs would skyrocket if the number of tag holders is limited...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Overcrowding is addressed by capping tag numbers.
I would gladly apply for 10-15 years for the chance to DIY a dall sheep.
I don’t see myself to ever be in a position to justify 20k$ (and rising)
for an outfitter.

My post wasn't really taking sides on the issue... more just highlight the comparison of the respective resources kinda flawed.

AK has an unguided only spring black bear hunt on POW, as we all know. I kinda wish they would go that route and provide some unguided Dall/Grizz/Goat units... they could even make them one's where you had to fly in so that you'd have to hire a transporter.

The AK guide rules (with my current level of understanding), don't impact the herd or aren't as problematic as say the MT proposed guide rules. Montana seems to be headed in the let's dramatically reduce the size of our elk herd and then get top dollar for guided private land hunts. AK has chosen to take a resource that already has a much higher demand than supply, and prioritize resident opportunity and jobs.

Neither is good for me personally but I think there is a difference.

Totally open to being educated here, and BuzzH when you read this take a deep breath and go easy on the flogging.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Totally open to being educated here, and BuzzH when you read this take a deep breath and go easy on the flogging.

I disagree. A good flogging does wonders for the gallery’s’ enjoyment, especially when accompanied by memes and gifs.

 

[DirtyDan]

Better be careful of what you wish for regarding pricing NR out of the game. When we don't get our hunting fix a lot will turn to other outdoor recreation. After a while the mass population that you kicked to the curb isn't gonna give 2 shits about YOUR public lands and rights as hunters. They'll be building mountain bike and running trails through your precious honey holes. This is the exact reason I think ALL public lands should go to a one price tag no matter residency or NR. If its public, its public for all. Yes, I understand how the state trust works, I think it's high time it's changed. For the better of all public land owners.