Okay this is going to be a long post please beware. I'm looking for some actual experience with light weight barrels and bedding. I sent pac-nor my Kimber 8400 in 270wsm for a 1-8 twist. I gave them 2 dummy rounds to chamber it. 150gr speer btsp and the new 175 sierra game changer loaded to max box length. When I got the barreled action back I did not check the free bore assuming they would have reamed it to .010 -.03 after rust bluing it and bedding it I started my reloading process. The first thing I found out was they free bored it almost a 1/2 inch. Which wouldn't be so bad except for the fact I had a note with the dummy rounds to free bore .015-.030. So with 140 gr Hornady btsp they would be completely out of the case before the bullet would even touch the rifling. After all the work I figured I'd shoot it the way it was. Needless to say accuracy was not good. Called pac-nor up and they sent me a new shipping label for free and put a new barrel on with out any argument. Thank you. After checking everything was right where I asked I full length bedded the action and barrel. I took it out with some ladder loads in 175 gr game changer and 150 gr speer to sight in 140 gr btsp,165gr nosler accubonds. Had 3 powders with accurate 4350, magpro and H1000. To get to the point all rounds put the 1st 2 in the same hole or touching each other with the third going out about 1 inch. I have a Kimber Montana that I bedded the action and had the barrel free floated and went thru all the QC problems Kimber was known for and could not get it to shoot better than a 1 1/4 inch 4 shot group. So every rifle is different but what is preference on light weight Sporters free floated barrels or full length. What would be easiest to deal with the first couple shots or total accuracy of a 3 shot string.
Kimber rifles and full bedding
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cahunter805
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I free float every rifle and have never had an issue with getting them to shoot. IMO it’s much easier to add a pressure point if need(which I’ve never had to do) than it is to remove bedding from a complete barrel channel.
Don Fischer
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Only rifle that never shoot well for me was a Rem mod 7 when they came out. Noticed it had a very slinder barrel but didn't worry much about it. Free floated it, bedded solid to front of chamber and bedded solid all the way. Absolutely nothing shot well in that rifle. Best hunting rifle I ever owned was a Rem 660 in 308. Bedded it free all the way, noticed it had a shorter heavier barrel and it shot great. 3/4" groups were always there! Have had a number of 700's and have three now. Lump in front of the stock removed in every one and floated all the way, great shooters! I think you guy's wanting 6 pound - rifles shuld be careful what you ask for. Better a 7 to 7 1/2# rifle that shoots well and some phy ed for yourself!
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Mustangs Rule
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Free floating barrel good, Bedding action good, bedding barrel bad
Yeah I just thought I'd try it just to tinker around. The nula rifles barrels are full length bedded as far as I know. And I believe alot of rifles shoot well fully bedded from factory. Anyhoo I took the Montana out after fully bedding the barrel. Had loaded up some Barnes ttsx 130 gr pushed by hunter powder. Before full length bedding they would group about 1 1/2 inches. After full bedding they are printing about 6" all in a horizontal line about 2" apart. But the 130gr Accubonds using N-165 powder are grouping under 1" for 3 shots. The Kimber 8400 with the new barrel was doing worse than the first time out. I think I wrote down the wrong load on the target and had the loads mixed up. So not a whole lot learned on that trip. Looks like I'm going to just use the ol'e 06 for my cow elk hunt till I get done tinkering. I guess I'm going to buy one of them rubber dampeners that slide on the barrel or maybe bust out the sandpaper or try the business card under the barrel trick. I think it's just a matter of tuning the load to the rifle as each have pros and cons as far as bedding goes. Just seeing if anybody else is playing around with the Kimber Montana rifles or I'm I the only one dum enough to start? Don't answer the last part I'm pretty sure I know the answer.
I do a 3 shot string maybe 1 min apart. Then let the barrel cool all the way down for my next group. On the 8400 I wanted to shoot 2 rounds and let it cool for 5 min and shoot the 3rd to see if it still went out from barrel heat. But the loads I took where not what I wanted and none of them were grouping with heavy bolt lift so I didn't learn anything on that.
Scott85
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I would be waiting 3-5 minutes between shots.
Yeah I guess that would let the barrel cool down and let me know if it's from heat. That would definitely get me info. My goal is to get the rifle to shoot a lot of different loads consistent under actual hunting conditions. I know alot of people will say well you only should need 1or 2. But I have shot up to 6 rounds at game before. Maybe the best I can hope out of the rifle is only 1 1/4 inch groups.
I had to work on a Montana a bit to get it to shoot well enough. Floating the barrel helped, as did bedding the action, and making certain that the magazine box was not a problem. As it came from the factory it sat on top of the magazine box and did not sit down into the factory "bedding". As it came from the factory the rifle shot very poorly indeed. It now shoots "good enough" for a lightweight, but I am still glad that I will never see it again.
Forbes stocks are much more rigid than the Montana stock. Full length bedding a Montana will probably not work very well for you.
Forbes stocks are much more rigid than the Montana stock. Full length bedding a Montana will probably not work very well for you.
On those lightweight barrels I’d let them sit until completely cooled back down after each shot. As far as getting 6 consecutive rounds even under an 1.25” with a pencil thin barrel I think you are asking to much
Don Fischer
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I normally agree with that but, and you knew that was coming. had an L61R Sako years ago I got new in 7 mm Rem Mag. Shot best full bedded! These days everything is floated from the action forward and no problems. But now and then you'll find the rifle that is a little different for some reason. free floating doesn't work, I'm all for trying full bedded! major point here for me. If there's something you know a bit about and don't try on a rifle that doesn't shoot well, the only way to find out is try it!
Yup had the same problem with mine. Mag box pinched.
I'm starting to agree with you on the Montana. I really do like the 8400 though it's for me absolutely perfect fit not the round so much but it was plenty accurate for me to hit running jack rabbits. Even shot a running mule deer about 100 yards with. Shot the barrel out of it I shot it so much.
Oh yeah sorry that didn't come out the way I meant. Yes that would be asking alot I was looking more for 3 quick shots
Even 3 is asking a lot of a pencil thin barrel
Don Fischer
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Describe cool! I've been out in mid 70 degree weather and after three shots seem's like the barrel will never coold down. If it's 80* out, what makes the barrel cool? Do the same thing in 50* weather and cool is still a state of mind. What you believe to be cool is cool. But you can guess a bit by touching and then depending on the outside, cool becomes a relative thing. I like shooting three shot groups, barrel doesn't get to awful hot and it's seldom a game animal will give you more than three shots! I do shoot some 5 shot groups once the load is developed but then I develope loads during cool months. Develope at somewhere between 40* and 55* and even with five shot group's the barrel does cool some if you leave it sit a bit. try that at 75* and you could sit all week waiting fot the thing to cool!
Cool would be to ambient temp so your testing is consistent for that day
std7mag
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As for the OP's original question.
I had a Forbes 24B in 280 Rem. Forbes uses a heavier barrel with a stiff composite stock & full length beds his rifles.
And his rifles are known to be excellent shooters.
In talking with Mr. Forbes, he told me unless the stock is really stiff, don't full length bed.
Going by that, i only bed the actions on most of my rifles. The stocks, even the wood ones have some flex.
The only rifles i haven't free floated the barrels on are my Ruger 77s. I bedded the actions, but left the forestocks, with the pressure point, alone.
I had a Forbes 24B in 280 Rem. Forbes uses a heavier barrel with a stiff composite stock & full length beds his rifles.
And his rifles are known to be excellent shooters.
In talking with Mr. Forbes, he told me unless the stock is really stiff, don't full length bed.
Going by that, i only bed the actions on most of my rifles. The stocks, even the wood ones have some flex.
The only rifles i haven't free floated the barrels on are my Ruger 77s. I bedded the actions, but left the forestocks, with the pressure point, alone.
Thanks good information. I think I will just sand out the full length bedding on the 8400 and put a pressure point on the Montana just to see before sanding that back out.
Thought I would post my findings with the 2 Kimber rifles. I sanded out the bedding on both of them. The Montana 270win is now shooting the 140gr Hornady btsp with 53.5 gr of hunter back to where it was just over 1 1/8 4 shot group. And after messing around I only had 2 rounds of 130 gr ttsx bullets with 60 gr H4831sc. Both rounds were touching with a warm barrel.
I'm calling it as good as it's going to get. The 8400 in 270wsm with the 1-8 twist is shooting the 175 gr sierra tgk.
With 62gr of magpro just under 1" 3 shot group with out cooling in between rnds. 64 gr
Was the limit before hard bolt lift. Now if I could just get it to shoot well with the 165 gr nosler LRAB bullet's. Since I have 200 of them. Not a whole lot of reloading data for the heavy .277 cal bullets. That's why I'm posting loads. Maybe help someone else out. Any suggestions on load data for the wsm and 165gr accubonds would be appreciated. I have
Imr and accurate 4350, H1000,
Magpro, H4831sc, Hunter, N-165 powders someone access to quick loads can help me out I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
I'm calling it as good as it's going to get. The 8400 in 270wsm with the 1-8 twist is shooting the 175 gr sierra tgk.
With 62gr of magpro just under 1" 3 shot group with out cooling in between rnds. 64 gr
Was the limit before hard bolt lift. Now if I could just get it to shoot well with the 165 gr nosler LRAB bullet's. Since I have 200 of them. Not a whole lot of reloading data for the heavy .277 cal bullets. That's why I'm posting loads. Maybe help someone else out. Any suggestions on load data for the wsm and 165gr accubonds would be appreciated. I have
Imr and accurate 4350, H1000,
Magpro, H4831sc, Hunter, N-165 powders someone access to quick loads can help me out I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
