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Keep wealth tags for big-game hunting out of Idaho

Ithaca 37

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"I would like to inform Idaho hunters of efforts to establish wealth tags for big-game hunting in Idaho. Wealth tags are big-game permits issued to the highest bidder and come with opportunity and privilege not available to general or draw-tag holders. This ill-conceived concept is how Utah runs its wildlife. A Utah-based group, Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, has established an Idaho contingent and is quietly trying to establish wealth tags in our state.

Wealth tags are sometimes called "conservation" tags but "conserve" nothing and allow the finest game animals to be hunted by privileged individuals with armies of guides during times when these animals are most vulnerable. Utah has 5 percent of its big-game tags given to "sportsmen's" organizations to be auctioned off. These groups say they have improved Utah game herds with the money raised and therefore justify the financial discrimination. Utah has seen an increase in elk — so has every other state — but the deer and antelope herds on public lands have fared no better than anywhere else in the western United States. So what did the Utah hunter receive from selling off his hunting rights?

If the public in Utah was originally told that hundreds of public tags and animals would be set aside for the wealthiest nonresidents, do you think the public would have embraced Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife's wealth-tag concept? If Utah's "habitat improvement" is such a success, why are the hills of Idaho crawling with Utah license plates every fall? The public hunter in Utah has been "managed" out of his own state.

I invite readers to study a Utah hunting proclamation and see if it is a model we want for Idaho. Controlled tags for elk in Utah are $280 to $508; for deer, $138 — for a resident. Utah has embraced a concept that if you want a good hunt you have to pay for it. The irony is that Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife fought the modest fee increase in Idaho. One could speculate that this group seeks leverage to demand the formation and control of wealth tags in Idaho.

These tags sell for thousands of dollars. To garner the prices Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife is accustomed to in Utah and assure attendance at its banquets may require management changes in Idaho to produce the 200-point bucks and 400-point bulls needed to draw wealthy bidders. Productive units can produce this class of animals if the population is controlled with massive female harvests and extremely tight antlered harvests. So the improved "opportunity" Idaho hunters will enjoy is an extra cow tag and a shot at a bull tag every other decade or so. Take a look at a Utah proclamation, how few antlered tags Utah has available, and how poor the odds are of ever drawing a tag. Is the pride Idaho residents may feel to have the hunting magazines feature huge animals taken from our state worth giving up our hunting rights?

We can't say for sure what the goal of Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife in Idaho is with its attempt to control Idaho's public game. We can look at what it has achieved down south and pray for underachievement in this state.

The Idahoans who have joined Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife likely care deeply about our precious Idaho resources. I seriously doubt the majority of them would sell our resources to the highest bidders to pay for lobbyists, consultants, and even bitterbrush. I hope these people can also reject the formation of wealth tags in Idaho and fight not only the wolves from up north but also the wolves in wealth-tag clothing coming from the south."

Mike Veile lives in Soda Springs.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050312/NEWS0503/503120303/1052/NEWS05
 
Wealth tags have many names Ithaca. You are right on about "conservations" being a misnomer. How about landowner tags for private land bordering nat'l forests? A ransom for a free range animal feeding on private land? The loudest voice in the crowd is usually $$$.
Good luck.
 
It is the excuse used by USO and their couter part Conservation Force as to why NR hunters should get preference over residents also.

http://www.conservationforce.org/info/get_hunter_art.cfm?art_id=100

The outfitters and guides that contribute so very much to auction revenue and the success of the industry’s major hunter conservation organizations have been taking a whipping for sticking up for nonresident rights
Resident hunters apparently don't contribute to conservation efforts. |oo

The guiding industry will become more volatile as well as those nationwide organizations that depend upon outfitter hunt donations for all their conservation work.
I didn't realize that the nationwide conservation organizations depended upon outfitters for "all" their conservation work. Fascinating. :BLEEP:


This is a good reason alone to not allow wealth or conservation or legalized poaching tags into any other state.

Nemont
 
You all need to make note that SFW is NOT A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION!!!! beware of these clowns. They are a big business not looking out for the average Joe, just Mr money bags. The same clowns are trying to get an extra 10% of all limited entry tags in UT for auctions and raffles and that would then make it a total of arounrd 20% total taken from UT and used mainly by the rich!!! these guys will screw up UT with thier political hype and as any usual politician Don Peay will pull the wool over your eyes.
 
reply..

my GOD i agree with you for once...i decided to not join the SFW when KARL MALONE flew across the western states lobbying for new members at the sportsmans warehouse.The best part about utah hunting that i remember when talking to utah hunters was the one day deer hunts back in the 1990's...
 
Last year in Utah these groups auctioned 342 tags. Now a law is being pushed to go to
basically an unlimited amount of tags that can be auctioned every year ( the supposed cap is now 5% but has been exceeded regularly ) Now I am not saying that SFW is the devil because years ago they did some fantastic things but now day's it is becoming more of a train wreck
 
So IT,

What's your take on this letter to the editor. Sounds like one of those Idaho anti-wolf nuts you've been slamming over the years. Are you in favor of giving back the 180 or so K that the Idaho Governor's sheep tag went for in San Antonio?
 
Bighorn, these tags have gone too far. time for money to raised other ways is what the sportsman are saying but SFW isnt listening now are they?
 
Schmalts,

I agree. These "special" tags are starting to get way over done. I'm just trying to get IT's opinion of this editorial. It seems this Idaho hunter likes how Idaho manages it's game for opportunity and dislikes how Utah manages for trophy quality. On other threads, posters have complained about how their state does not manage for trophy quality. Then in the units they do manage for quality, the draw odds are so poor that they complain about that as well. Seems no matter how you do it, someone complains. There was a lot of resistance to Montana wanting to raise resident hunting fees of late. So what are some of the other ways that we can raise money for wildlife that makes everyone happy?

IT, I see that the California developer that bought the Governor tag a few years ago, and that your freinds "guided" to a sheep that was shot in an unretrevable position untill a rock climber came a week later to cut the horns off the trophy, shot a very nice ram in Hells Canyon last year. Did this same developer buy the Idaho auction tag this year? Rumor is, is that there is an even bigger ram in Hells Canyon, and that's why the tag went for so much this year. Big bucks for a big rack, capitalism at it's finest.
 
BHR, there are ways to create better trophy potential without going to draw only tags:

LIMIT ACCESS by closing roads, ATV trails, adopting laws like those in Idaho (no atv's off road during hunting seasons), etc.

Really simple, yet the easy solutions seems so elusive to some.

As to the governors tags, within reason they are a great tool. In Utah, though, it seems like they are getting out-of-hand.
 
Buzz,

Wyoming gives out quite few governors tags for sheep (don't know about other animals). Is this being over done? I've seen several instances where the Wyoming tag has been bought and then donated back to be reauction off. It was done by the same individual several times. Guess the old rich guy figured he's killed enough sheep over the years, but likes where the money is going, and likes to show off a bit at the auction. Then there are some that are only motivated by big horns, and how they get them is of little consiquence. Blazing away at 550 yards. Scaring off game from other hunters prior to the season openner. Using a fleet of guides to do their scouting for them. That's what I call the "human element" that tarnishes some of the good that can be done with the money generated from these tags.

So what is the definition of "within reason". I don't know for sure myself, just asking everyone's feelings about this issue. I do know "fair chase" should be issue number one.
 
I had to look at the Commision tags that were awarded last year. I was surprised by some of the recipients of the tags. I am sure these are good non-profit (well not all of them in my opinion, but I won't get into it here :BLEEP: ), but I would think most wildlife conservationist would rather see these dollars going to other organizations such as RMEF, FNAWS, MDF and others.

Goshen Rooster Boosters
Wyoming State 4-H Foundation
Wyoming Game Wardens Association
Friends of the NRA, Douglas Chapter
Sundance Volunteer Fire Department
Wyoming Wool Growers Association
Wyoming Outfitters and Guides Association
Niobrara County Library Foundation, Inc.
Sheridan Elks Lodge, No. 520
Museum of the Mountain Man
Evanston Elks Lodge
The Lords Storehouse (Evanstons Food Bank)
Little Snake River Events Center and the Buffalo Bill Cody FFA Alumni
Wyoming Association of Taxidermy Artists
Carbon County 4-H Foundation


http://gf.state.wy.us/admin/commission/license/index.asp
 
BHR/Buzz,
I'm interested in opinions re: BHR's reference to 'within reason'(post #11) My apologies for my lack of cut and paste skills. Also, at what point does $$$ override 'fair chase'?...i.e. big dollars for creme de la creme auction tags plus hiring multiple guides to insure trophy harvest? I heard the expression "horn porn" on another forum. Is this a radical view or a valid concern?
 
NHY,

It's a valid concern to me. There was a good article in a recent Fair Chase magazine that discussed your points. Maybe I can find a link to it.

From some of Sage Ghost's comments, I gather that he is not a Carl Malone fan. Maybe he knows things about Carl that I don't know? Maybe he's jealous of successful people? I have heard that he is involved in getting kids to hunt. I would think that is a good thing. I do know he spent a lot of money at the latest FNAWS convention including buying the Montana Moose tag. He also gave a very good speech at the evening banquet. One point of his speech that I found most notable was where he commented on those hunters that throw a tape on the downed animal the minute they get to it, and the quality of the hunt is only dependent on what the tape says. They need to rethink their reasons for hunting. That probably ruffled a few feathers in the crowd, but was right on in my book.

Something I have heard this weekend, is a movement to combine RMEF, FNAWS, and other organizations fundraiser into one big one at Salt Lake in 07. I'm sure this is being promoted by SFW and Don P.. Their point being that more money raised would go to wildlife instead of to multiple convention centers. It is for many reasons controversial at this point, and may or may not happen. The movement towards massive issuence of tags for raffles and auctions does concern me. I need more information about what's up however, before I form an opinion.

One follow up to a question Moosie brought up in the Big Game forum a while back. It appears National FNAWS is funding or is talking about funding a multi million dollar Stone Sheep study. Appearently the Stone Sheep population has under gone a serious decline of late with no definate conclusions why. Conifer encrouchment, preditors, over hunting/ poaching, disease, ect are all possibilities. This may be the project that Moosie was refering to. If I find out anything more about it I will post it.
 
reply..bighorn..

Let me spell it to someone who may not understand an educated idahoan like myself...What i was trying to convey in english was that i do NOT believe a x-nba star represents my views and concerns as an IDAHOAN. Nor does some
person in Preston,Idaho who is a utah transplant. (some friends from Preston informed me) that is a few of the many reasons why i di not give my $$$$ to
SFW..
 
BHR, I dont know how many sheep tags WY gives out for auction.

To me a "reasonable" number of tags is one or two a year in states with good viable sheep populations. Also, I think those tags should be in addition to and not part of a total state-wide quota. The average guys put sheep on the hill long before the days of auction tags.

I agree with you on the ethics side of things, it would be nice if one of the rich dudes would just hunt by themselves instead of with the fleet of guides.

The thing you cant legislate (at least easily) is ethics, some people have them, some dont...how much money you have is pretty much irrelevant in regard to personal ethics.
 
Buzz,

I think Wyoming gives out 4 or 5 sheep tags to various fundraisers but could be wrong. I know they have in the past however. I think the more tags the state gives out, the less rare they become, and overall the less money gets raised for the cause. For example, if 3 people are bidding on one tag the price goes higher than if 3 people are bidding on 3 tags. I also agree that these tags should not be issued at the expense of management (are there enough animals in this state or unit to allow for increased harvest).

Hey Ithaca,

You started this thread and won't comment on it? What's the matter?
 
Today i read on another website... one who advocates SFW that a past SFW board member claims he was paid $72,000.00 annual salery.
And you guys want to welcome a non-nonprofit ORG like that into your state?? You guys need to wake up, they are a business cloaked as a grass roots wildlife ORG. They cater to the rich and take from the poor. beware, my .02 cents
 
Schmaltz,

Not calling you on anything, but could you do a bit of research and figure out if SFW is non-profit or not? You have posted both descriptions, and only one could be correct. I am curious, as I thought they were a non-profit, but you have described them both ways.
 
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