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Is the Coronavirus a Joke to some People?

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So for those that are standing by the numbers of Covid deaths as making all of the economic restrictions worthwhile, how do you balance the deaths caused due to the restrictions? For example, the suicides, drug overdoses, domestic violence, delayed cancer screenings, etc? Someone up above (I have not verified) stated that flu deaths stopped at 344. So right away, just taking the flu deaths away, we bring Covid from 168K to 100K (roughly). Now start subtracting all the other deaths and as was alluded above, it is likely that number is HIGHER than the Covid deaths. I, for a long time, was coming down right in the middle between believing how bad the virus is and it being a scamdemic. As time goes on, I am more and more believing this is more of a scam than anything. I wear a mask as it requires no effort on my part and is not the hill I want to die on to protest, but in my personal opinion, the unintended consequences of Covid is adding up to more than the virus itself. I have seen a lot of things addressed on this thread, but the pandemic believers seem to not address this point at all. I am certainly willing to listen to their views on this as maybe I am missing something.

To bring it back to hunting and outdoor recreation, on one hand we have more people using the out of doors. That is great! But what if they start closing seasons due to the perceived threat of the virus and it turns out to be not even needed? That would make me very very mad. Thankfully I am seeing no evidence of this in the near future.
 
To bring it back to hunting and outdoor recreation, on one hand we have more people using the out of doors. That is great! But what if they start closing seasons due to the perceived threat of the virus and it turns out to be not even needed? That would make me very very mad. Thankfully I am seeing no evidence of this in the near future.
I would agree that is a HUGE PLUS of this happening and like you pointed out, also a really big threat to our recreation privileges.
 
So for those that are standing by the numbers of Covid deaths as making all of the economic restrictions worthwhile, how do you balance the deaths caused due to the restrictions? For example, the suicides, drug overdoses, domestic violence, delayed cancer screenings, etc? Someone up above (I have not verified) stated that flu deaths stopped at 344. So right away, just taking the flu deaths away, we bring Covid from 168K to 100K (roughly). Now start subtracting all the other deaths and as was alluded above, it is likely that number is HIGHER than the Covid deaths. I, for a long time, was coming down right in the middle between believing how bad the virus is and it being a scamdemic. As time goes on, I am more and more believing this is more of a scam than anything. I wear a mask as it requires no effort on my part and is not the hill I want to die on to protest, but in my personal opinion, the unintended consequences of Covid is adding up to more than the virus itself. I have seen a lot of things addressed on this thread, but the pandemic believers seem to not address this point at all. I am certainly willing to listen to their views on this as maybe I am missing something.

To bring it back to hunting and outdoor recreation, on one hand we have more people using the out of doors. That is great! But what if they start closing seasons due to the perceived threat of the virus and it turns out to be not even needed? That would make me very very mad. Thankfully I am seeing no evidence of this in the near future.

See my rough numbers in #174. That provides at least some sort of baseline for discussion for what you're talking about. Give me your thoughts on that.

Also, I'd like to some number, really any numbers, on the bold portion above. If we're hearing about incorrectly attributed deaths I would think we'd be hearing about this if it was a real problem.
 
Also, I'd like to some number, really any numbers, on the bold portion above.

Agreed. This has become a talking point for some people, but I have yet to see any numbers. I understand the concerns about suicides and mental health, but you can't cite increasing numbers without showing increasing numbers. I work in the emergency room in a small hospital that serves a population of about 100,000 people. IN THAT LIMITED SCOPE OF EXPERIENCE, I would estimate mental health visits are stable or decreased since this started.

QQ
 
Yes, there are deaths and societal costs such as suicide, depression, alcoholism, domestic violence, to name a few. there will also be long term financial costs to our health care system. It’s not just about the number of dead people from COVID, and it’s not an easy equation. Thinking it’s a scam and will go away with the election is ignorant and foolhardy IMO.
 
See my rough numbers in #174. That provides at least some sort of baseline for discussion for what you're talking about. Give me your thoughts on that.

Also, I'd like to some number, really any numbers, on the bold portion above. If we're hearing about incorrectly attributed deaths I would think we'd be hearing about this if it was a real problem.


Here is a paragraph from an article I found on a quick google search (https://khn.org/news/death-records-...ount-the-hidden-deaths-of-the-covid-pandemic/):

“You’re not necessarily going to see the direct effect of poor diabetes management now, but when you start having kidney dysfunction and other problems in 12 to 18 months, that’s the direct result of the pandemic,” Kohli said. “As we’re flattening the curve of the pandemic, we’re actually steepening all these other curves.”

AJ, in post #174, you are talking about deaths that are logged as Corona virus deaths incorrectly (that are really heart disease or diabetes or something). I am talking about causes of death that are clearly NOT due to the Corona virus itself but are CAUSED by Corona (ie suicide due to lost job).

Longboy51 in post #162 said this, " The head of the CDC said last week that excess deaths from suicide, alcoholism, and drug abuse due to shut downs now exceed covid deaths at this point (not in March or April, clearly).

I would love to see that article too but couldnt find it in the few minutes I had to look. I did stumble upon this though:

 
Fauci and Redfield both, in this article state the monetary incentive is leading to over-reporting of Covid deaths:


It is an opinion article that states they both said that. Take it for what it is worth. Still trying to find those unintended death numbers.
 
I think I found it. No hard numbers, but he does make the statement. I am not sure given how it was stated if he was just referencing young people or the population in general. Short article if you want to read it.


I certainly would be interested to see some hard numbers associated with this. I still have an open mind on this and am interested to see if this becomes a bigger topic in the near future. I am also really interested in any reports that have to do with hunting and public lands on this topic, so if you run across them, please post them up!
 
I think I found it. No hard numbers, but he does make the statement. I am not sure given how it was stated if he was just referencing young people or the population in general. Short article if you want to read it.


I certainly would be interested to see some hard numbers associated with this. I still have an open mind on this and am interested to see if this becomes a bigger topic in the near future. I am also really interested in any reports that have to do with hunting and public lands on this topic, so if you run across them, please post them up!

As with all news stories, it requires some perspective. We already had an "epidemic" of opiod overdoses and depression-related suicides before covid started. Also, the death rate from covid in the age groups discussed has been so low that any number you use is being compared to a pretty small number to begin with. The article states that both opiod overdoses and suicides have increased in the last few months relative to prior numbers, so there is perhaps something there. Again, need to see real numbers to decide if it's significant.

QQ
 
Mud, you are making this up. What's mind boggling is the amount of distortion that is being applied in posts like yours and many others. When it hits you and your family, maybe you will catch on, but until then, all you are doing is providing more confusion and resistance to fixing this problem so we can move on again.
I'm not making anything that is straight from a person in my household who does the reports every morning for the hospitals that she works for but like I said I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else. I will bow out now as I'm not interested in arguing or name calling. Have a good day
 
So for those that are standing by the numbers of Covid deaths as making all of the economic restrictions worthwhile, how do you balance the deaths caused due to the restrictions? For example, the suicides, drug overdoses, domestic violence, delayed cancer screenings, etc? Someone up above (I have not verified) stated that flu deaths stopped at 344. So right away, just taking the flu deaths away, we bring Covid from 168K to 100K (roughly). Now start subtracting all the other deaths and as was alluded above, it is likely that number is HIGHER than the Covid deaths. I, for a long time, was coming down right in the middle between believing how bad the virus is and it being a scamdemic. As time goes on, I am more and more believing this is more of a scam than anything. I wear a mask as it requires no effort on my part and is not the hill I want to die on to protest, but in my personal opinion, the unintended consequences of Covid is adding up to more than the virus itself. I have seen a lot of things addressed on this thread, but the pandemic believers seem to not address this point at all. I am certainly willing to listen to their views on this as maybe I am missing something.

To bring it back to hunting and outdoor recreation, on one hand we have more people using the out of doors. That is great! But what if they start closing seasons due to the perceived threat of the virus and it turns out to be not even needed? That would make me very very mad. Thankfully I am seeing no evidence of this in the near future.


The cost benefit equation is not Deaths due to Covid under lock down versus deaths due to lock down and economics.
The equation is Projected Deaths from Covid with no precautions versus deaths due to lock down and economics.

If we handled the equation like China it might look something like this: 1 Covid Death per 150 due to other factors total dead = 2.8 million
Currently in the US it's maybe like: 1 Covid Death per 10 due to other factors = 3 million
If we do nothing, no masks, vaccines, go back to business as normal: 100 Covid Deaths per 1 due to other factors = 13 million

^ This is all made up to make a point.

General concept to thing about: We have built models based on our understanding of this disease + our understanding of other diseases we have encountered. Everything that public health workers are doing are working towards lowering the projected numbers, provided by those models.

If you did things perfectly, it would seem like the government were total fascists and the diseases was no big deal because no one would be sick and there would be no spread at all.

If you handled things horribly it would seem like our government is guilty of mass murder.

Our politicians are walking the line, I'm sure it's tough. I don't envy anyone who has to make the tough calls whether it's Trump or a democratic Gov. It's a lose lose.
 
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March thru July 2020 How many in the USA deaths of/from Pneumonia? In comparison to the same period in 2019 & 2018 & 2017.
Since we are data driven these days out of the top ten causes of death excluding suicide are all 9 down over the same 5 month period referenced above in comparison to 2019 and 2018 and 2017 ???
 
It has been well established that in March the CDC changed the way they reported deaths for Covid ONLY. Deaths by diseases had been reported the same way since 2003. Interesting article that argues that if CDC did not make that reporting change, there would be 90.2% fewer Covid deaths.


This paper will present significant evidence to support the position that if the CDC simply employed their 2003 industry standard for data collection and reporting, which has been successfully used nationwide for 17 years; the total fatalities attributed to COVID-19 would be reduced by an estimated 90.2%
 
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At this point in time anyone who does not take Covid seriously never will. Those who say they will not wear a mask for whatever selfish reason they give are the ones' who will cause this virus to linger on far longer than it would if everyone chose to do the right thing for their own family, friends and neighbors.

Those of you talking about other causes of death such as flu, OD's, car wrecks, heart attacks and whatever else you wish to look at have to remember that those deaths are still happening in addition to the covid deaths. We have already more than doubled the 80,000 flu deaths of last year in only 6 months with 167,000+.

So many people won't take it seriously until it affects them personally and can see firsthand the devastating effects on their parents, grand parents, children, friends or co-workers.
 
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Science is always evolving, and you accept each new data point, that is, if the work which produced it seems valid, modify your theory, or treatment as necessary. The data will continue to come in, and we already know tons more than we did. I just don't know how not believing every single thing some media outlet or "expert" says is gospel, given the massive flip-flopping going on can be construed as "not taking it seriously".
What difference does it make ? Whatever you believe will very likely be wrong in 18 months. Just wear a mask, keep your hands away from your face, wash your hands, and protect those at risk. It's pretty simple. longbow out on this topic; this is getting to be CNN vs Fox. See you over in firearms or Friday music.
 
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