Im bowing out

[Deleted member 28227]

I believe your missing an equation that has initially ---> subtly entered and now takes center stage.
2 incomes per household. (Unless your spouse is a $$$ machine: hint, hint Wllm )

At one time, people believed a different family metric than today.

Whereas you suggest 1.21, 2 incomes quickly place perspective for simple Wendy's jobs.
Apply a COLA to various areas and everything makes perfect sense! (Humor)

Side note:
Amazing how much a Wendy's manager makes! Upwards 80k and more in other areas.

If this was already touched on 6 pages earlier - blah.

Agree to all above, I did reference it in posts following my initial one.

Though, it doesn’t change the baseline facts, it’s more explanatory.

Also @SAJ-99 two income households, chicken or the egg, to needing 2 incomes for a household?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@DouglasR her expert knowledge was in human health, physical and cognitive decline, and that was why she was referenced.

Various jobs have different earning potential and trajectories, those that require a lot of education and/or training tend to be backend heavy, meaning a MD is worse off then a construction worker till maybe 40? then it flips.

Also, and thank goodness lots of people choose careers to help people not just make money

This makes a lot of assumptions and isn’t probably accurate to life about any of the three professions but it gives a rough example of ‘the math’.

Best Future Career: Doctor, Engineer, or Plumber? - My Curiosity Lab

When I was a child, I could think of nothing more awesome than becoming a mountain climber. My aspirations were largely due to a large cliff we would often drive past, sheer and rocky in the summer and covered with huge icicles in the winter. I told my parents of my aspirations frequently. To...

mycuriositylab.com

 

[SAJ-99]

I will do some digging…

Seems likely for rural but I imagine the trend goes the opposite way for urban?

Seems like Census Bureau has the data, buried of course. Showing the difficulty in comparing historical data, the size of the household has declined while the size of the median home has increased. So do we have to measure median sq ft per capita? LOL.
The same probably goes for boats. In the 70's having a jon boat with an outboard for fishing the local lake was fine. Now you need an 18ft with more technology than we sent to the moon in all the Apollo missions combined. But yet we all complain about something...

 

[Elkmagnet]

You continue to miss the point of what costs are due to need and want. I have made the point that the problem is when someone wants to start out in a home that most people work their way into, it will choke you.

Where does the need or right of a first home that would cost $600,000.00 fit into the matrix of home ownership that you assume a person has to start at that point?

The problem here is a lack of affordable housing. The smaller less desirable homes HERE have raised in value at a disproportionately higher percentage than any other segment.
I bought my first little home at the peak of housing costs fall 2007 127k. 1200sq ft tiny sub lot, minimum quality, in an undesirable area with long commute.

Everything crashed and lots of identical homes around the same sub were 30- 50k at auction when banks cleared the foreclosures out. Some had to be auctioned multiple times to get sold.
We kept the place and in 2018 sold it to my niece as her first home for 160k.
Now those homes are fetching 380k. She couldn't afford to buy the same house at today's price.
She does medical billing and has 2 years of college. Her income has hardly moved She makes less than the local fast food restaurants are advertising. She talks about moving to fast food.
Has very minimal college loans, a crappy car, average intelligence.
Has a husband that works in agriculture and 2 young boys. They both work hard to afford child care and a home to live in.
FYI an apartment here would be $1400 - 2000 a month.
I see lots of people complaining about costs . Housing, gas, food. While telling youth the boot straps are low. Most of the complaining is done by people with enough gas to get to work today. Many don't have that.
The reality is things change.
Obviously everything stated is regional.

Am I missing something? Or perhaps you have become disconnected with the reality our youth are facing today? Because its a different reality than it was just a few years ago.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Also @SAJ-99 two income households, chicken or the egg, to needing 2 incomes for a household?

2 income households are typically paying a mountain in child care for someone else to raise their children.
Expecting mothers are getting on daycare waiting lists as soon as they find out.
God forbid someone stay at home and not have a job to raise children. Lazy SOBs! We can and will shame them for trying to raise decent kids!

The newest numbers i can find are for two kids in my area-
2018 - $13,500 per year
2019 - 16,301 per year
Thats a 20% increase and I promise it has accelerated since 2019.

Cost increase 3 years
Housing $900
Child care $250-750
Health insurance $200-300 (my family of 4)
Groceries 15-20%?

Boot straps kids boot straps!

 

[shrapnel]

I seems like graphs and numbers need to make the point, so I found some little known graphs that illustrate the common young philosophy on home buying;

 

[DouglasR]

@DouglasR her expert knowledge was in human health, physical and cognitive decline, and that was why she was referenced.

Various jobs have different earning potential and trajectories, those that require a lot of education and/or training tend to be backend heavy, meaning a MD is worse off then a construction worker till maybe 40? then it flips.

Also, and thank goodness lots of people choose careers to help people not just make money

This makes a lot of assumptions and isn’t probably accurate to life about any of the three professions but it gives a rough example of ‘the math’.

Best Future Career: Doctor, Engineer, or Plumber? - My Curiosity Lab

When I was a child, I could think of nothing more awesome than becoming a mountain climber. My aspirations were largely due to a large cliff we would often drive past, sheer and rocky in the summer and covered with huge icicles in the winter. I told my parents of my aspirations frequently. To...

mycuriositylab.com

Whatever, Neil.
I doubt I live to see 40 and I’m prob gonna die with my ski boots on.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Whatever, Neil.
I doubt I live to see 40 and I’m prob gonna die with my ski boots on.

You'll have me by decades buddy


and to the old cranky boomers on here...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@shrapnel well played sir

 

[Nick87]

2 income households are typically paying a mountain in child care for someone else to raise their children.
Expecting mothers are getting on daycare waiting lists as soon as they find out.
God forbid someone stay at home and not have a job to raise children. Lazy SOBs! We can and will shame them for trying to raise decent kids!

The newest numbers i can find are for two kids in my area-
2018 - $13,500 per year
2019 - 16,301 per year
Thats a 20% increase and I promise it has accelerated since 2019.

Cost increase 3 years
Housing $900
Child care $250-750
Health insurance $200-300 (my family of 4)
Groceries 15-20%?

Boot straps kids boot straps!

Yup, wife could of stayed working full-time and we could of went the daycare route. Even though it is expensive we would still have had more money. We didn't have kids for somebody else to raise though. So she works Saturdays and Sundays. So if I'm working Saturdays which I do half the year depending on the year. So usually we are able to get a grandparent for that day. Lot more work but we feel it's the right thing to do. Also 1 day is enough for grandparents, I don't think they should be raising kids either.

 

[TOGIE]

yeah those 6-9 hours a day of 6-18 year olds going to public school sure sounds like "somebody else" raising ones kids to me.

i feel like no matter how you try to slice it or come up with an excuse parents are just trying to guide their children and sculpt their morals and principles while the world raises them.

people do what they gotta do.

having a nanny a couple days a week, a grandparent another, a few days working from home for the rest while you wait for them to be old enough to go to school sounds pretty reasonable. nothin wrong with it.

 

[Nick87]

yeah those 6-9 hours a day of 6-18 year olds going to public school sure sounds like "somebody else" raising ones kids to me.

people do what they gotta do.

having a nanny a couple days a week, a grandparent another, a few days working from home for the rest sounds pretty reasonable.

Wasn't talking about

yeah those 6-9 hours a day of 6-18 year olds going to public school sure sounds like "somebody else" raising ones kids to me.

i feel like no matter how you try to slice it or come up with an excuse parents are just trying to guide their children while the world raises them.

people do what they gotta do.

having a nanny a couple days a week, a grandparent another, a few days working from home for the rest sounds pretty reasonable. nothin wrong with it.

Wasn't talking about kids in school age, also there's around three months of summer and seems like they have a holiday or institution day off school about every other week, another combined month for fall break, winter break, spring break. (you can't call it Christmas break or Thanksgiving break anymore). Doesn't seem like a lot but most jobs your going to be working majority of those days. Probably comes out to around 5 months total of weekdays that the kids are not in school while there "in school"

 

[Elkmagnet]

yeah those 6-9 hours a day of 6-18 year olds going to public school sure sounds like "somebody else" raising ones kids to me.

i feel like no matter how you try to slice it or come up with an excuse parents are just trying to guide their children and sculpt their morals and principles while the world raises them.

people do what they gotta do.

having a nanny a couple days a week, a grandparent another, a few days working from home for the rest while you wait for them to be old enough to go to school sounds pretty reasonable. nothin wrong with it.

Sidetrack.
I think we could agree that if you spend less time with children your influence decreases. Would spending 3pm to 9pm with your kids make it more likely for your child to adopt you morals, values and ethics than would spending from 630pm to 9 pm together I don't know but I suspect yes.

School is 4 days a week if that now

Also here you cannot get on a waiting list for child care unless you are willing to pay for full time. They bill you for a full week regardless of days attended. I suspect that is common for high demand areas.
One I know of is $2200 a month with or without attendance. If a spot comes available you start paying even if the child hasn't been born or the mother is on maternity leave. You want your spot you don't miss a payment.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I say none of that to vilify anyone who does the opposite every situation is different and people do what you gotta do. My ideal is not going to be your ideal.

 

[Irrelevant]

(you can't call it Christmas break or Thanksgiving break anymore).

Why not? Straight from the School District.

 

[Nick87]

Why not? Straight from the School District.
View attachment 214542

Good for you guys, ours is "fall break" and "winter brake" now.

 

[Irrelevant]

Good for you guys, ours is "fall break" and "winter brake" now.

And here I thought I lived in the liberal WA...

 

[Nick87]

Also veterans day is not celebrated anymore.

 

[Irrelevant]

Good for you guys, ours is "fall break" and "winter brake" now.

BTW, even Seattle public SD calls it Thanksgiving break, but most the Puget Sound SDs have gone to "Winter Break"

Also veterans day is not celebrated anymore.

And they still celebrate Veteran's day. WTF is going on in Illinois

 

[Nick87]

And here I thought I lived in the liberal WA...

Your gonna have to try harder.