IDFG Turns to a Hired Gun

[ric]

The great burn fires of 1910, and again in the 20s were all north of the Lochsa River, and had nothing to do with the Church. Although, the old burns of 10 and the 20s along with the hay day logging of the 50 thru the 70s created some excellent elk/big game habitat. The created habitat very much over inflated the elk population. Those burns are now mature and no longer the excellent habitat. This is the reason for the elk decline in units 10, 12, and surrounding units. Wolves have very little to do with the elk decline there. It was a very bad winter kill in 97 and the loss of habitat, along with some very bad IDFG mis management that has caused the elk decline in northern Idaho, not wolves.

 

[6speed]

F&G is reporting a 43% drop in population since 2002 in the area. The winter of 97 didn't cause that kind of reduction. Habitat is a factor but not the only one. There are plenty of people who will claim mismanagement by F&G is the cause of all wildlife issues. The problem is that group ranges from the kill all the wolves crowd to the let everything take care of its self crowd and plenty in between. They do what they can with what they have and compaired to a lot of states they do pretty good.

By the way they have called off the reduction action with a total of 9 wolves removed.

 

[fowladdict]

F&G is reporting a 43% drop in population since 2002 in the area. The winter of 97 didn't cause that kind of reduction. Habitat is a factor but not the only one. There are plenty of people who will claim mismanagement by F&G is the cause of all wildlife issues. The problem is that group ranges from the kill all the wolves crowd to the let everything take care of its self crowd and plenty in between. They do what they can with what they have and compaired to a lot of states they do pretty good.

By the way they have called off the reduction action with a total of 9 wolves removed.

6speed,

Correct me if I am wrong, but the winter of 96 and 97 dropped the herd numbers from around 16,000 to 8,000. And since 97 the herd as dropped to around 2 to 3,000? I get a kick out of reading guys rant about how the wolves took that herd from 16,000 to 2,000. And from what I've seen the cow tags were not scaled back after the winter of 97 due to the uproar of the public when IDF&G talked about cutting the cow tags way back.

 

[muleguy]

middle fork salmon wolf control action to end
Idaho Fish and Game is ending this year's agency action to reduce the wolf predation on elk in the Middle Fork Salmon area of the Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness.

Fish and Game has removed 9 wolves since the action began in December, with no wolves taken in the past two weeks.

Fish and Game's action is part of a larger strategy to help elk recovery in the backcountry. Elk cows and calves in the area have been vulnerable to predation, and the Middle Fork herd has declined significantly in recent years - down 43 percent since 2002. The number of elk calves surviving is too low to replace the adults dying each year, and the herd is continuing to decline. In addition to reducing wolf predation, Fish and Game offers extra tags for black bears and mountain lions - other predators affecting the Middle Fork elk population.

It will take a few days to complete the collection of equipment and transport of Fish and Game personnel out of the area.

This action generated strong responses from people with wide ranging values. "We remain committed to working with Idahoans to ensure that both wolves and healthy elk populations remain part of the wilderness," Fish and Game Director Virgil Moore said. "This action was an important step toward achieving our goal of stabilizing the Middle Fork elk population."

In early February, Fish and Game will post on its website a predation management plan that outlines all future efforts being considered to restore the Middle Fork elk population. The plan is consistent with the Fish and Game Commission policy on predation management, which is the basis for ongoing efforts in other backcountry areas.

More information about the decline of the Middle Fork elk population can be found on page 100 of Fish and Game's new 10-year Elk Management Plan. A copy of the plan is posted on the Fish and Game website: http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/?getpage=324.

 

[Elkmagnet]

6speed,

Correct me if I am wrong, but the winter of 96 and 97 dropped the herd numbers from around 16,000 to 8,000. And since 97 the herd as dropped to around 2 to 3,000? I get a kick out of reading guys rant about how the wolves took that herd from 16,000 to 2,000. And from what I've seen the cow tags were not scaled back after the winter of 97 due to the uproar of the public when IDF&G talked about cutting the cow tags way back.

I would do back flips if we ever get that herd above 8k again. I think 16 was probably not sustainable.
If I remember right the outfitters didn't want to loose the either sex tag but what do I know? My first hunting trip into the frank was in 98 when I was a 15 year old pup

 

[Elkmagnet]

More information about the decline of the Middle Fork elk population can be found on page 100 of Fish and Game's new 10-year Elk Management Plan. A copy of the plan is posted on the Fish and Game website: http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/?getpage=324.

The zone break down PDF on the right in that link has the info to answer most of the questions people have asked in this thread.

 

[6speed]

6speed,

Correct me if I am wrong, but the winter of 96 and 97 dropped the herd numbers from around 16,000 to 8,000. And since 97 the herd as dropped to around 2 to 3,000? I get a kick out of reading guys rant about how the wolves took that herd from 16,000 to 2,000. And from what I've seen the cow tags were not scaled back after the winter of 97 due to the uproar of the public when IDF&G talked about cutting the cow tags way back.

If you think I am ranting about the wolves reducing the herd from 16,000 to 2,000 then I will correct you, you are wrong. As I said in the post you quoted habitat loss is part of the problem.

A quick check of harvest statistics shows 175 cows taken from the Middle Fork in 2000, 177 cows were harvested in 2002, in 2004 70 antlerless tags were filled and in 2006 there were 112 harvested. Also in 2006 the population survey showed 5137 cows. Cow harvest continued at 42 in 2008, 57 in 2010 and 6 in 2012. In 2011 the survey said there were 3341 cows in the zone. I don't think these numbers show an overharvest allowed by F&G in the time frame from 2002 to present and infact show the opposite. The objective for the zone is 3850-5750 cows. If the habitat could sustain 5137 cows in 2006 and hunters are obviously not having a significant impact what has happened in the area in the last 8 years to cause the population drop? F&G was willing to be put through the legal and media ringer to remove wolves from the area. There must have been someone in that department who was able to justify the need.

 

[brymoore]

IDF&G is now saying the hunter killed 17 wolves, eliminating two packs.

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Idaho-official-says-hunter-eliminated-2-wolf-packs-242593621.html

KETCHUM, Idaho -- A state official says the reason a professional hunter has been called out of a federal wilderness in central Idaho is because he succeeded in killing all the wolves in two packs.
Idaho Department of Fish and Game spokesman Mike Keckler tells the Idaho Mountain Express the hunter killed eight wolves with traps and a ninth by hunting. He started in mid-December.
Keckler says no wolves were killed in the last several weeks in the Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness.
He says the agency decided it had reached its goal of eliminating the Golden Creek and Monumental Creek packs as part of a plan to bolster elk numbers.
Officials announced Monday the hunter was coming out.
Conservation groups had filed a lawsuit trying to stop the hunt.

 

[Ultrahunter]

I don't see where your getting 17, I read it as 9?

 

[6speed]

It says 9 in the Mountain Express article and 9 on the F&G web site. Not sure where you are getting the 17 number?

 

[fowladdict]

If you think I am ranting about the wolves reducing the herd from 16,000 to 2,000 then I will correct you, you are wrong. As I said in the post you quoted habitat loss is part of the problem.

A quick check of harvest statistics shows 175 cows taken from the Middle Fork in 2000, 177 cows were harvested in 2002, in 2004 70 antlerless tags were filled and in 2006 there were 112 harvested. Also in 2006 the population survey showed 5137 cows. Cow harvest continued at 42 in 2008, 57 in 2010 and 6 in 2012. In 2011 the survey said there were 3341 cows in the zone. I don't think these numbers show an overharvest allowed by F&G in the time frame from 2002 to present and infact show the opposite. The objective for the zone is 3850-5750 cows. If the habitat could sustain 5137 cows in 2006 and hunters are obviously not having a significant impact what has happened in the area in the last 8 years to cause the population drop? F&G was willing to be put through the legal and media ringer to remove wolves from the area. There must have been someone in that department who was able to justify the need.

Whoa ...whoa...I wasn't implying you were ranting at all!! I was on board with your above comments. I was just questioning the 43% you brought up. The research that I have done shows the elk herd was cut in half after the winters of 96 and 97. I just think it is important when studying the herds that IDF&G goes back to at least prior to the winter in 96. When looking at the overall numbers it is important that hunters/biologists acknowledge all of the variables when it comes to herd numbers. The winters in 96 and 97 took place prior to any healthy populations of wolves in the area, then the wolves did establish themselves over the next several years, overabundance of other predators and loss of habitat are all major factors.

Again, I certainly wasn't implying you were ranting at all. I was merely applying my comment to the Toby Bridges and Save Western Wildlife followers of the world. They are hell bent on believing that wolves are why there are no longer 16,000 elk. I suppose I could have been more concise with my comment...my apologies.

 

[6speed]

Now your calling me Toby Bridges!

Sorry I had to throw that out. I didn't take any offence to your other comment either. The 43% is the number since 2002. The cow population was at objective in 2006 but fell below objective in the 2011 survey. Its not 43% from the all time high that is causing concern. 43% of the 16,000 would be the high end of the objective.

 

[brymoore]

I don't see where your getting 17, I read it as 9?

Oh, you're right. I read the article wrong.