I160, what are your thoughts

[Sytes]

Thanks Meatatarian.
Great to have forums to educate and learn processes such as this.
AS OF July 13th...

Total signatures received and tallied by SOS: 19,948 signatures, 30 qualified house districts.

The # of signatures - if they are displayed, does that mean that of the 30 legislative districts thus far - they have received the minimal 5% per district or has that been determined yet? I understand they can submit more than 5% in a leg. district though the 34 districts must have at least 5% each.

 

[Sytes]

Ballot Issue #7 I-160 (Status current as of 7/16/2010)
Subject: Prohibit recreational and commercial trapping of animals by private individuals on public lands
Sponsor: Timothy Provow, M.D., Footloose Montana
Type: Statutory amendment by initiative
Received by SOS: July 15, 2009
Status: Petition has been approved for signature gathering.
Next Step: Sponsor may gather petition signatures and submit them to county election offices.
Total signatures received and tallied by SOS: 20,318 signatures, 32 of 34 qualified house districts.

It is July 16th... I suppose this will not be on the ballot? 1722hrs. ?

The deadline for final submission by the counties of verified petition signatures is July 16, 2010.

Seeing as stuck my boot in mouth on the date where it is concluded this is a NO GO... Does this mean, further days for SOS to announce the FINAL total? Or is it end of business July 16th 1700hrs - OR... (haha!) Is it 2400hrs 07/16?

 

[Meatatarian]

Watching Q2 News right now and Jay Kohn said the SoS will be doing final tallies next week.

 

[drahthaar]

Gosh, I hope they are short.

Probably dozens of stinky, hairy-armpitted, bunny hugging, footloose MT wenches, all wreaking of cannabis, coffee, and baked goods, driving like a bunch of bats out of hell toward Helena with piles of papers filled with hundreds of illegible signatures, half of which were written by the same 20 people. Trying to make it to the office of the SOS by 5 o'clock.

 

[----]

dozens of stinky, hairy-armpitted, bunny hugging, footloose MT wenches, all wreaking of cannabis, coffee, and baked goods

Well now I'm all hot and bothered

 

[Big Fin]

Probably dozens of stinky, hairy-armpitted, bunny hugging, footloose MT wenches, all wreaking of cannabis, coffee, and baked goods,

Typical Missoulians?

 

[----]

Typical Missoulians?

Ouch.
And coming from a Bozangelite.

 

[shoots-straight]

Gosh, I hope they are short.

Probably dozens of stinky, hairy-armpitted, bunny hugging, footloose MT wenches, all wreaking of cannabis, coffee, and baked goods, driving like a bunch of bats out of hell toward Helena with piles of papers filled with hundreds of illegible signatures, half of which were written by the same 20 people. Trying to make it to the office of the SOS by 5 o'clock.

I'm kinda turned on now. WTF! :hump:

 

[Sytes]

Coming from So. Californicated pussy cat territory - I'll drink a beer to our raisinized treehuggers... Griz NATION more than makes up for them... Besides the GORP they make.. and Darn that Good Foods store has some good stuff worth keeping them at the checkouts... HAHA!

No offense So. Cali - though think even you can accept your area nutjobs as we missoulians love our granolas and bozys - wonder if their cats are blue and gold or blue and coward color...

 

[----]

The Good Food Store might be the best thing that's ever happened to groceries in Missoula.
Althought the Oak Street Market in Bozangeles isn't bad either.

 

[sweetnectar]

Say the sucker passes and gets voted in as law...I still say it violates the Montana Constitution and as such would have to become a court battle all the way to the Montana Supreme Court. Then any judges with half a brain take one look at it and say...hmmm this violates the Montana Constitution and therefore is ruled unconstitutional.
The only problem is that sometimes judges are lacking on the brain end of things.

 

[shoots-straight]

Say the sucker passes and gets voted in as law...I still say it violates the Montana Constitution and as such would have to become a court battle all the way to the Montana Supreme Court. Then any judges with half a brain take one look at it and say...hmmm this violates the Montana Constitution and therefore is ruled unconstitutional.
The only problem is that sometimes judges are lacking on the brain end of things.

The problem is the wording. It never specifically mentions "Trapping" as a means to harvest game. I read the wording a year or so ago. I could be wrong. Just shooting off the top.

 

[Meatatarian]

Say the sucker passes and gets voted in as law...I still say it violates the Montana Constitution and as such would have to become a court battle all the way to the Montana Supreme Court. Then any judges with half a brain take one look at it and say...hmmm this violates the Montana Constitution and therefore is ruled unconstitutional.
The only problem is that sometimes judges are lacking on the brain end of things.

DISCLAIMER: I in no way, shape, or form want to see this qualify for the ballot or pass by vote.

But, I don't see how this would violate the state's Constitution. We already have a book full of laws that limit our opportunity to harvest wild fish and wild game animals. And, because the Constitution specifically states "wild game animals," I don't think it preserves the right to harvest predators or furbearers. Game animals are defined in statute as deer, elk, moose, antelope, caribou, mountain sheep, mountain goat, mountain lion, bear, and wild buffalo. Furthermore, anybody would still have the opportunity to trap, just not on public lands. Kind of like we have the opportunity to hunt elk, but not at night. The Attorney General's opinion is that it doesn't violate the Constitution either, as a legal review is part of the process before the sponsor can gather signatures.

All of this, of course, is JMHO and as I said I hope it doesn't pass.

 

[drahthaar]

So final tally will come out next week?

If they are short and it doesn't make the make the ballot, can they bring this back year after year? Or is there a waiting period?

 

[Meatatarian]

Copied from a Friday Billings Gazette story:

Secretary of State Linda McCulloch next week will certify which of the 11 ballot issues received enough signatures by registered voters to qualify for the ballot.

As far as I know there is no limit on bringing forth initiatives.

 

[ismith]

I really hope this doesnt pass! I dont much care for wildlife management buy ballot box. On a related note, I seen at least a dozen dead raccons, a beaver and a porcupine on the road between Helena and Ennis this morning.

 

[drahthaar]

Copied from a Friday Billings Gazette story:

Secretary of State Linda McCulloch next week will certify which of the 11 ballot issues received enough signatures by registered voters to qualify for the ballot.

As far as I know there is no limit on bringing forth initiatives.

Yeah, this seems like one of those things that will keep popping up over and over until the people vote on it and either shoot it down or pass. Until it's shot down at the ballot box, they will keep pushing.

 

[Sytes]

http://fwpiis.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=42381

Very good review of current settings by MTFWP in response to the I160.

As stated before, I am 100% against this initiative, as I think I have made clear. HOWEVER, I have always had an obvious concern... with traps in public... and maybe here is a great opportunity to ask...
I would think a posted sign should be present at the location of the trap... Whether this would raise caution to the animal or not...

I would be SERIOUSLY PEEVED to have my nephew's leg get snapped or worse... If I sat on a jury over such a civil trial - a sign would dramatically reduce the liability to cover medical, etc as I think a sign at least significantly reduces / removes negligence - in a sense.

Reading the above MTFWP statement seems to suggest only the actual trap is required to have the license info.. though no mention of anything to indicate to a human a trap is present...
I have come across a couple 'yote traps that thankfully had a sign... Is there a rule to advise humans of the hazard or not?
Having seen the 'yote ones w/ signs I never thought differently - though having reviewed MTFWP's info I am no longer sure a sign would be present...

We wear orange during rifle season... It always amazes me how we wear orange w/ camo... though that is another thread... If Bright orange is a requirement I would imagine a posted sign would not be a problem as well..

 

[BuzzH]

Sytes,

A few things for you to think about...

I've done a fair bit of trapping, not as much as some, but more than enough to have an informed opinion about it.

For starters, you dont have to worry about your nephews leg getting snapped by a trap. I've had my fingers pinched by just about all the traps I've ever set at one time or another. Every size leghold from a number 1-4 and while not the most pleasant experience I was never fearful of "snapping" even a pinky finger...let alone a leg. Of all the animals I trapped, I rarely had anything with a broken leg in a trap. I did have a few muskrats wring off a leg...but if you've ever skinned a muskrat...you'll notice their front legs are tiny for their body size and really frail. The only traps I was ever leary of were the 330 conibears...I didnt mess around with those and I would never set them anywhere I thought people and/or their pets would come in contact with them. I never had a problem while using them.

As to posting a sign...not a good idea. I had enough trouble keeping thieves from stealing my traps in some areas without posting a sign that says, "hey, I have a string of $12-$20 a piece traps set near this sign...see if you can find them".

Lastly, I think its about time that MT and other states consider requiring trappers education, just the same as they require hunters education, bowhunters education, etc.

It makes sense to me to have experienced trappers teach others how to trap, how to do so responsibly, where to set and where NOT to set traps, etc. With trapping becoming largely a lost art, I think there are just too many new trappers that dont have a clue whats going on out there making some poor choices in trap placements. Those poor choices catch peoples pets and those type of things make the newspapers and the 10 O'clock news. They also start the unfounded and largely untrue "facts" about trapping.

When trapping is done right, by responsible trappers, its a really neat outdoor experience. I learned a lot about wildlife, how to read sign, animal habits, etc. through trapping. Most good trappers I know, are also good hunters and good woodsmen in general.

I hate to see trapping stopped in any state...its a part of our nations history and there really is an art to doing it right. I've had many, many great days in the field while running a trap line.

 

[Sytes]

Appreciate the insight Buzz. Having NEVER trapped - I follow by perception and good ole books regarding the rendezvous days Great books though sure as shnit I would not want to get slapped by one of those traps.
That is really interesting you can get pinched without serious clamp power. How often do trappers typically check their traps? Does it follow the same concept as typical hunting? As in - can not waste meat / etc?