Hunting Opportunity For Rancher Haters!

[Leanwolf]

So far, I've not seen Ithaca, Buzz, ElkGunner, One Pointer, and the other rancher haters, mention another devastating, unnatural "species" on the public lands, that must also be removed, when all the cattle and sheep are kicked off. Or,if they've mentioned or addressed it, I haven't caught it.

Thousands upon thousands of pseudo "wild" horses, who truly destroy the public lands, waterways, grasses and forbes and vegetation, and riparian areas.

Thousands upon thousands of pseudo "wild" burros, who truly destroy the public lands, waterways, grasses and forbes, and vegetation, and riparian areas.

Each and every one of these horses and burros must be killed. (Anyone who thinks that there are enough Wild Horse Annie Yuppies out there to adopt all those horses and burros, doesn't know anything about the "Adopt a Wild Horse" program.

Soooo, get out your guns, boys, and have at it. Gun 'em all down! Mount a few of the biggest horses and burros on your walls! Have gigantic barbeques of the meat, too. Waste not, want not. I'll attend. I've eaten horse, but not burro. Wouldn't mind trying a Burro Burger.

If we're gonna get pristine and natural here, let's do it right. No hypocracy, boys. How many horses and burros do each of you guys intend to kill?? Hell, no need to go to Africa and pay thousands of $$$$ to shoot a horse (Zebra), when you can just ride out on the high desert and hills and gun 'em for near nuthin'!

And for those who are so ignorant as to say, "Hell, Leanwolf, those are WILD things.....," Well, better get out your American history books and see where the horses and burros came from. A little place called "Spain." Brought here in the early 1,500s, by the Spanish conquistadors.

They gotta go, boys and girls. We'll call it, "Bag A Burro Day," and "Hunt a Horse For Biodiversity Week."

Agreed??

L.W.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Fine with me. All I know about the wild burros is what I've read. I have no first hand experience with them. I do have lots of first hand experience with wild horses and see them almost every time I go to a few of my chukar hunting spots. They sure don't do any noticable damage there. In fact, since cattle aren't allowed there it's a great place to hunt. The cover is real good for chukars, quail and huns. The horses don't congregate around the water like cattle, so the riparian zones are in good shape.

And Lean, can you provide quotes from any of us about how all cattle and sheep have to be kicked off public lands? I think you may be catching a reading comprehension disease from Ten Bears.

 

[Doug]

I sure hope Del doesn't see this. I hear he's the president of the Phoenix Chapter of Save The Burros

. As for Myself, I hate horses anyways, so let me know when the season opens.

 

[Delw]

Lean wolf we have a big problem with tomany wild burros here in AZ.. I would love to be the first in line to pop a few 100....

There are many game and fish guys that believe they should be controlled.... but due to there federal status they cant be.. Even if its game and fish doing the controling...

Where I fish I could easly kill 50 in a single hour with out moving the boat, and I bet that wouldnt put a dent in them in that area.....


Delw

 

[Ten Bears]

I've eaten horse, not bad. Never tried burro, probably tastes like horse (nothing like chicken though).

I can't beleive that IT says he's never seen damage done by them. Must be that the cows all got there first.

I will say that unshod horses don't do near the trail damage that shod horses do. But wild horses and burros do tear up water holes and vegitation.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-14-2003 16:10: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[Ten Bears]

Reading comprehsion disease is it?

You just can't take the heat, and end up back trackin' all the time.

IT/BUZZ. Something about "grandstanders" lead to that alot.

Great armchair enviromental masters, but you still never answered the questions I've posed of you.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Leanwolf, I agree...they should open season on wild horses. No reason for them to be protected, they're not native. I don't think you'll get too much argument from anybody on here, like you seem to be expecting. The BLM could even make money by selling tags. Heck I'd buy a tag if they weren't too expensive. Horse meat can't be that bad, and if I didn't like it, I could always feed it to my dogs.

 

[Delw]

HAHAHA Doug

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I hear he's the president of the Phoenix Chapter of Save The Burros <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


One of the main reasons desert big horn in this state have probelms is due to burro's. These animals litterally destroy a water hole, They shit and piss in the same water hole they drink out of. they carry disease's that affect only the bighorn sheep as well..

other reasons for bighorn decline is mt lions (which is one reason we have a one per day limit all year in certain units)..
The other reason is poaching and bighorns being stupid and falling off the cliffs(seriously they really do fall off)...

We dont have cattle over grazing problems like people say they have in other states , but we do have a burro over grazing problem and a burro population problem....

Wow Imagine that a real mexican burro burito

Delw

 

[JoseCuervo]

Leanwolf,
Thanks for putting me in the company of the other great minds on this board

, but I am really not a rancher hater. I own cattle. I sell cattle. I raise cattle. I go to cattle sales. I can stick my hands up the back side of a cow and pull a baby calf out. And I put $$$ in my pocket from the raising of cattle. And I think some of the best lookin' gals are those that wear tight Wranglers

.

And I'll help you out on your looking for a quote:

ALL cattle and sheep should be removed from Public Lands Immediately --Elkgunner, 5-14-03

I have posted before, and I won't bore anybody, but for Economic reasons, the Welfare Ranching should be stopped. The same for environmental reasons, and lastly, as someone who likes killing Elk, Deer, and Big Salmon/Steelhead, the Welfare Ranching should end.

And for the topic of this thread, I frequently consider putting a bullet through the head of a horse, generally the one my saddle is on

.

From what I see in Idaho, our Wild Horse population is not big enough to cause problems, and we get lots of people who like to go see them, and get a thrill.

I don't know if I would step up and buy a tag to hunt them, but I sure would bid for the job of thinning them, as I just don't want to pack some stinky old horse.

And does anyone know why wild horses do less damage than domestic horses to the ground? I'll see who has actually been around a wild horse.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-14-2003 20:11: Message edited by: Elkgunner ]</font>

 

[Erik in AK]

Didn't the BLM used to shoot horses from helicopters (in the 70's) when it was determined that their numbers were too high?

Then the public went bugshit over killing
"noble" wild horses and yuppie activist groups got them protected. Now they really are damaging range habitat.

Its a very emotion issue in many quarters which of course interferes with the implementation of any reasonable solution.

Not to be an egghead or anything but the spanish actually re-introduced the horse to this continent. According to the experts who study fossil records, horses died out in the late Pleistocene. I don't recall the theorized "why".
(I'm a Discovery Channel nerd)

I say treat them like any other varmint--If they're on your land and you want them shot, shoot them, but be smart (i.e. discrete) about it and don't draw any unnecessary attention while doing it.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Erik,

I found your picture:

And you are most correct, according to the website on the Hagerman Horse (of Idaho). Hagerman Horse

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Three and a half million years ago, also called the Pliocene Epoch, the area at Hagerman was a floodplain flowing into ancient Lake Idaho. Water supported an environment where pelicans, herons, swans, frogs and turtles lived. Grasslands supported animals such as the horse, camel and antelope.
The Hagerman horse is the earliest known representative of what would eventually become the animal we are familiar with today. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Horses did not return to North America until the Spanish Conquistadors brought them from Europe in the late 1500's <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[cjcj]

the burro`s should all be shot! they are now all the way down to lake pleasant[just north of phx. leanwolf you did bring up a good point! the wild horse and burro act was past after CONGRESSMAN SAM STEIGER shot and killed two of them on his ranch in prescott,they were fouling up his water holes and he wacked them with his 30-30 the lib`s heard about it and they weny ballistic. so the past the law to ban it.

 

[Ithaca 37]

OK, I'll bite. "And does anyone know why wild horses do less damage than domestic horses to the ground? I'll see who has actually been around a wild horse."

Their shoeless hooves don't seem to tear ground up as much, they seem to roam over a fairly large area and are usually moving, they generally seem lighter and more compact, their hooves must wear differently and maybe conform to terrain better, they probably don't slip and slide as much on slick ground.

Did I come close?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ithica,

Good try, and I will wait for at least LeanW and Ten to provide their insight as to why.

 

[cjcj]

wild horse`s migrate, winter and summer range. domestic`s are held within a certain boundry, that`s my guess but them burro`s are out of control and can`t be adopted out fast enough.

 

[BigHornyRam]

In the Pryor Mountains in South Central Montana, the buny huggers want to try contraceptives to deal with the feral horse over population. I think they should open a few more French resturants in Billings.

Paul

 

[Leanwolf]

Ithica 37, I must say I'm surprised you haven't sen damage done to the waterholes, and creek banks/riparian lands in the feral horse areas, because I surely have. Northern and north eastern Calif., and in the middle eastern and northern Mojave. Down in the Chocolate Mountains of Southern Calif. Also,in the northern and northwest areas of Nevada. Northern Arizona has a big problem, too.

Not only the trampling of these areas, and stripping of the grasses, they will also run game off from the watering holes.

I am speaking of areas that I have hunted and hiked in, and seen these things happen. I know there are many other areas in the West, which suffer the same abuse by these unnatural inhabitants, I just haven't seen them. Others have, including some posters here.

I'm just trying to be fair, and non-hypocritical here. As I said about "welfare ranching" in another thread, "Ban one welfare spigot [ranchers, farmers,outfitters, et al] Ban ALL Welfare!! Ban the 128 million $$$ you claim the welfare ranchers/farmers receive: Ban the BILLIONS of $$$ sucked from our pockets by the two legged welfare cheaters, swilling at the Public Trough!.

Discrimination has been outlawed, by Statute, hasn't it??

So, dump out the cattle and sheep from any and all public lands: dump out the horses and burros!

Yeah, I know that shod hooves can cause more damage on the trails than unshod hooves, but I don't see shod horses destroying the creek banks and ripaian areas, and I sure as Hell don't see shod horses driving wild game animals away from the watering holes, the way the feral horses and burros do.

Of course, if we're gonna use the example of "shod horses hooves" in relation to damage to the "ecology," shouldn't we just ban all shod horses from being used on the public lands... to save the environment?? Wanna pack that elk? Buy a llama or three.

By the way, another poster said that the horse was "re-introduced" by the Spanish... which is technically correct.... BUT, the "horses" that became extinct 12,000 years ago in North America, were only very vaguely related to, or resembled the horses that the Spanish conquistadores brought here in the early 1,500s. These horses and burros out destroying the natural environment here, are UNnatural; feral.

I also have a brilliant plan, for those of you who intend to go horse and burro hunting in order to save the environment. Trophy classification, B&C, P&Y.

Horse with the biggest ears. Longest front teeth. Ugliest hooves. Longest and most luxuriant mane and tail. Number of square feet of leather per hide, unstretched. And for shooting a stallion, the longest ... uhhhh, and the biggest set of ..... uhhh, well, you know.

How about it boys, when do the safaris begin??

L.W.

 

[BigHornyRam]

There was a article in todays Missoulian about Wyomings intent to sue the BLM over overpopulated feral horse's distroying the wildlife habitat. Sorry no link. Problem is that many of the rabid anti-ranching crowd, are also rabid supporters of feral horses and their humane treatment. Because of laws developed by these nuts, there is no economical way to control the horse numbers. So the BLM is broke and unable to do anything about the problem, and the feral horse populations soar.

P. S. Lonewolf

B&C dork size will work for me. Total length, base and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd quarter circumference measurements. Of course the 60 day drying time could lead to considerable shrinkage.


Paul

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-15-2003 16:03: Message edited by: Paul C ]</font>

 

[1_pointer]

I am all for repealing the protection of Horses and Burros. They may be the worst animal for grazing on arid rangelands. Not only are there problems with waterholes, but they are much less efficient than cattle, sheep, or goats. PO Ackley used to like to use them to test his wildcats on!

PS: LW, you put me into esteemed company! BTW, I am not a rancher hater and don't advocate for the removal of ranching from public lands. But, I do support better management, which is why I'm pursuing a degree in Range Ecology.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-25-2003 15:51: Message edited by: 1_pointer ]</font>

 

[BigHornyRam]

What's up Pointer?

Is self preservation starting to kick in? Are you putting YOUR economic welfare above the welfare of the enviroment? Public land grazing should not be subsidized. Public land grazing will never be profitable with all the Gummint employed "Range Land Managers". So lets get the welfare rancher off OUR land, shut down the BLM, let the land heel, and let the wildlife florish. Face it Pointer, you and the welfare rancher are tied at the hip. They go, and so do you. So how can you make unbiased, science based decisions knowing this?

Paul