Hunt Talk Radio - Look for it on your favorite Podcast platform

HR 509, 249, wolf bills

BuzzH

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
17,797
Location
Laramie, WY
I saw a thread on Monstermuleys about contacting your legislators about those two bills...I had to modify the pre-written message that big game forever wrote. A pretty good template though:;)

This is Big Game Forevers pre-written half-assed reply:

I write to express support for H.R. 509 and S.249, the American Big Game and Livestock Protection Act. These bills are long overdue. Gray wolf populations in the United States are out of balance with the ecosystem. The resulting damage to livestock, elk, moose, deer and other populations is of great concern.

The states, sportsmen and livestock owners have fulfilled their commitments to recover wolf populations. Wolf populations now far exceed long established and agreed upon recovery criteria. Excessive wolf densities are now degrading habitat carrying capacity of not only elk, moose, deer and other wildlife populations, but also wolves themselves. Notwithstanding these facts, the commitments to delist by the federal government pursuant to national wolf restoration plans have not been fulfilled. Wasteful litigation by extremist groups exploiting technicalities under the ESA have stopped all efforts by the Bush and Obama Administrations to delist wolf populations.

H.R. 509 and S.249 fulfills these commitments to return America's wolf populations to state wildlife protections. The hundreds of millions of dollars of annual damage resulting from unmanaged wolf populations is now being borne by family ranchers, small businesses and economies of the West and Midwest. It is time to put aside the divisive politics that are used against any group who petitions for the promises of the ESA to be fulfilled. Not only does such divisive rhetoric ignore the investment of states, sportsmen and livestock producers in wolf recovery, it is also counterproductive to a constructive dialog of the need of wolf populations to be managed responsibly.

This legislation is supported by a growing number of sponsors in Congress, at least 32 state fish and wildlife agencies and by state and national wildlife groups, including Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Big Game Forever, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Mule Deer Foundation, Safari Club International, Congressional Sportsmen Foundation, National Rifle Association, U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance, Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife, Arizona Elk Society, Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society, American Farm Bureau, National Cattleman's Beef Association, American Sheep Industry Association and the Public Lands Council.

Your position on this important legislation to protect our hunting and agricultural heritage is extremely important to me as a constituent and a voter.

My reply with the facts in order:

I write to express my concerns with H.R. 509 and S.249, the American Big Game and Livestock Protection Act. These bills have nothing to do with the current issue with Gray wolf populations in the United States.

The states of Montana and Idaho have fulfilled their commitments to recover wolf populations. However, Wyoming has failed to do so under both the EIS and also the Wolf Recovery Plan. Wolf populations now far exceed long established and agreed upon recovery criteria, with the exception of Wyoming having an acceptable plan. Excessive wolf densities combined with severe winters, poor management plans, and the commericialization of public wildlife are having significant impacts. Notwithstanding these facts, the commitments to delist by the federal government pursuant to national wolf restoration plans have not been fulfilled by the State of Wyoming, as mentioned above. Wasteful litigation by the State of Wyoming exploiting technicalities under the ESA have stopped all efforts by the Bush and Obama Administrations to delist wolf populations. This abuse by Wyoming should not be used to impede the usefulness of the ESA under these acts.

H.R. 509 and S.249 will not fulfill these commitments to return America's wolf populations to state wildlife protections. The hundreds of millions of dollars of annual damage resulting from unmanaged wolf populations is now being borne by family ranchers, small businesses and economies of the West and Midwest, but the reality is that the State of Wyoming is responsible for this.

This legislation is supported by a growing number of sponsors in Congress, at least 32 state fish and wildlife agencies and by state and national wildlife groups, including Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Big Game Forever, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Mule Deer Foundation, Safari Club International, Congressional Sportsmen Foundation, National Rifle Association, U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance, Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife, Arizona Elk Society, Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society, American Farm Bureau, National Cattleman's Beef Association, American Sheep Industry Association and the Public Lands Council.

Just because this legislation is being supported by the 32 groups listed above, as well as uninformed members of congress, doesnt mean that the legislation is appropriate, warranted, and needed. Frankly, it is not.

I strongly urge you to vote against the bill, read the wolf recovery plan, the EIS, and recognize the real issue here. There is already legislation as well as a functioning mechanism in place to address the wolf issue. Wyoming is legally obligated to have an accepted plan. Wyomings compliance with the requirement of an accepted plan will accomplish delisting and give wolf management to each state. No meaningless, costly or additional legislation is required, simply compliance by Wyoming.

With the economic, as well as domestic and foreign policy issues that are facing the United States, I find it inappropriate for congress to support bills that further complicate the wolf issue. In particular when this legislation is not needed.
 
I think these 2 bills are going places. I've been contacting everyone I know to get the e-mails and support out for these 2 bills. Currently these 2 bills are the only thing looking to help out the wolf problem as a whole. Not just in the Northern Rocky mountains. I just have to question your motives in this. Maybe your a Democrat maybe your or friends are looking to profit of the hunting of wolves and are worried these 2 bills go to far, it doesnt matter to me, I know where I stand on this issue and how this issue affects me. This congress has the votes to pass this. Maybe not override a veto in the Senate but, we wont know if we dont try. This particular forum is in the minority or your just the minority and you just try to silence anyone who really wants this problem solved. Again doesnt matter to me, I know I'll keep preaching these 2 bills.
 
Brudno,

I think these 2 bills are DOA....and a waste of taxpayer money.

You think an attempt to end-run the ESA is going places??? Yeah, right down the drain.
 
I dont know, its better than watching the wolves continue to run rampant in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Wyoming could sign on tommorow and it would'nt make a difference to the deer herds here. I bet the votes are in the house to make it happen. Theres biparisan support on it, not that the house needs it.
 
taxidermynut,

Predator status in 2/3rds of the state...if they changed wolf status to trophy game statewide, the plan is accepted, wolves delisted, state control granted.

Case closed.
 
taxidermynut,

Predator status in 2/3rds of the state...if they changed wolf status to trophy game statewide, the plan is accepted, wolves delisted, state control granted.

Case closed.

Except in the rest of the country. its one big question mark. And then theres also the democrat appointed judges you have to worry about halting stuff. I suppose you were going to mention it, but couldnt find anywhere to put the small print.
 
The ESA isn't perfect, but I prefer it over a bunch of idiots in DC deciding what critters warrant listing. I have to agree with Buzz on this one (as I believe most anyone else he has a decent head on the shoulders). In this case, the problem isn't the ESA.
 
Brudno,

Judge Molloy already ruled on the wolf issue...and allowed the states to conduct hunts. He said in his ruling that the hunts would not harm wolf populations over-all and there was no justification for not allowing the hunt. He also ruled at the same time that if WY did not come up with an acceptable plan, he would have no choice but to relist wolves if a lawsuit was filed.

Huh, guess what happened?

When WY comes up with a plan there is NO way that Molloy can stop the states from having management control, he's already ruled that the wolves were recovered and hunting them would not negatively impact the population.

Just so you can follow along...that means that he accepted MT and ID's plans.

Its not up to WY, ID, and MT to tell the rest of the country how to manage their wolves. Its a states right issue once they are off the list.

I'd recommend you research the wolf issue and quit drinking the kool-aid.
 
Brudno,

Judge Molloy already ruled on the wolf issue...and allowed the states to conduct hunts. He said in his ruling that the hunts would not harm wolf populations over-all and there was no justification for not allowing the hunt. He also ruled at the same time that if WY did not come up with an acceptable plan, he would have no choice but to relist wolves if a lawsuit was filed.

Huh, guess what happened?

When WY comes up with a plan there is NO way that Molloy can stop the states from having management control, he's already ruled that the wolves were recovered and hunting them would not negatively impact the population.

Just so you can follow along...that means that he accepted MT and ID's plans.

Its not up to WY, ID, and MT to tell the rest of the country how to manage their wolves. Its a states right issue once they are off the list.

I'd recommend you research the wolf issue and quit drinking the kool-aid.

As soon as you tell me how you seek to benefit off this. Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan are way over the target number to delist them. There are more wolves in Minnesota right now than there is anywhere else in the US. There are more Wolves in Wisconsin than any 2 of the rocky states and same goes for Michigan. It has been left of the feds for too long and been mismanaged for to long. Your the one feeding the lies and misinformation, that magically the Defenders of Wildlife will disappear if Wyoming folds.
 
Buzz is spot on. Anyone that has been involved in the wolf issue knows this.
 
I benefit via a cheap wolf tag so I can help manage them and add a wolf hide to my trophy room...

As far as MN, WI, and MI, its up to those states to manage wolves...I want no part of telling the residents there whats best for their states.

You're over-thinking it Brudno...and listening to the wrong crowd.
 
You're tossing around population estimates that aren't even close to correct. You may want do some simple fact checking before going off on some crazy diatribe.
 
I benefit via a cheap wolf tag so I can help manage them and add a wolf hide to my trophy room...

As far as MN, WI, and MI, its up to those states to manage wolves...I want no part of telling the residents there whats best for their states.

You're over-thinking it Brudno...and listening to the wrong crowd.

I make my own decisions. Its ignorant and foolish to think you know where my thought come from or are formed. These bills are the great lakes best hope, I choose not to hunt near the wolf reintroduction area, but I love region G for bowhunting, and this is the best hope for that area as well, and the best hope to stop the spread of the wolf population throughout the rest of the states. Doesnt matter to me, what you think of me or my opinion, just the same goes right back to you in return. This is very political for you I fear, with your ranting against Rehberg.
 
LAFFIN!!!

Seriously, Brudno just doesn't get it. And won't. This thread reminds me of the one from December where icb12 was questioning why hunters would come to AK and shoot animals but not take all the meat back home with them.
 
Fine, leave WY, MT, and ID out of the bills, because they arent OUR best chance.

Use your head for 2 seconds...think about what these bills are trying to accomplish. Think about the ramifications.

Lets pretend these bills pass and end-run the ESA.

Keep in mind that the ESA has been argued in courts for years...all successfully defended the Act (which was passed by a REPUBLICAN BTW).

With that track record in the courts, do you suppose any groups will want to file lawsuits for new legislation that is in direct conflict with the ESA?

Its obvious from your posts where your opinion comes from...and its not from being involved in the wolf issue since the early 90's and spending a shit-load of time addressing same.

You're slurping kool-aid...and thats a fact.
 
You're tossing around population estimates that aren't even close to correct. You may want do some simple fact checking before going off on some crazy diatribe.

We'll see about that, Wisconsin and Michigan have new governors, both republicans. Both replacing very agenda driven liberals, who were both strongly opposed to guns and hunting. There was lots of corruption and cover up especially regarding wolves in this state. Thats no secret.

If in a few years the wolf populations are the same, I'll be pleastantly surprised.
 
Last edited:
LAFFIN!!!

Seriously, Brudno just doesn't get it. And won't. This thread reminds me of the one from December where icb12 was questioning why hunters would come to AK and shoot animals but not take all the meat back home with them.

Try crawling out of your box, and see what the majority of hunters think about the wolf issue. YOU WILL, quickly find yourself in the minority.

If that doesnt make me popular by the loudest voices here so be it. No skin of my nose.
 
Brudno,

How do you feel about Republicans who are opposed to public lands? How is wanting to sell public lands off to the highest bidder helping the average DIY hunter?

Liberals strongly oppose guns and hunting? Really?

I hope you arent basing your voting decisions on gun opposition...if you voted for any of these clowns, apparently you researched that as well as you have the wolf issue:

In 1969, journalist William Safire asked Richard Nixon what he thought about gun control. "Guns are an abomination," Nixon replied. According to Safire, Nixon went on to confess that, "Free from fear of gun owners' retaliation at the polls, he favored making handguns illegal and requiring licenses for hunting rifles."

It was President George Bush, Sr. who banned the import of "assault weapons" in 1989, and promoted the view that Americans should only be allowed to own weapons suitable for "sporting purposes."

It was Governor Ronald Reagan of California who signed the Mulford Act in 1967, "prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street." The law was aimed at stopping the Black Panthers, but affected all gun owners.

Twenty-four years later, Reagan was still pushing gun control. "I support the Brady Bill," he said in a March 28, 1991 speech, "and I urge the Congress to enact it without further delay."

One of the most aggressive gun control advocates today is Republican mayor Rudolph Giuliani of New York City, whose administration sued 26 gun manufacturers in June 2000, and whose police commissioner, Howard Safir, proposed a nationwide plan for gun licensing, complete with yearly "safety" inspections.

Another Republican, New York State Governor George Pataki, on August 10, 2000, signed into law what The New York Times called "the nation’s strictest gun controls," a radical program mandating trigger locks, background checks at gun shows and "ballistic fingerprinting" of guns sold in the state. It also raised the legal age to buy a handgun to 21 and banned "assault weapons," the sale or possession of which would now be punishable by seven years in prison.
 
GOHUNT Insider

Forum statistics

Threads
113,565
Messages
2,025,260
Members
36,231
Latest member
ChasinDoes
Back
Top