How tight a group?

[OntarioHunter]

This past summer I spent a lot of time and precious components building up a load for my 30-06 Springfield that would shoot slightly sub MOA at 300 yards. Figured I would need it in Africa when hunting Barbary sheep. Wound up shooting the ram at less than 60 yards. Of eleven animals taken one springbuck was about 200 yards, the rest were less and usually much less. Some great stalks. This past week I took one 300+ yard shot at a muley buck in 50+ mph wind off my bipod sitting atop the daypack. Though well anchored it was hopeless in that hurricane. Stupid. Dropped him in his tracks the next day offhand in 25 mph wind at 65 yards.

I think there's many other factors more important than sub-MOA. A good trigger is up near the top of the list. Spend a little time at the range getting familiar with it. Or simply dry firing it in the house is sufficient. Next is learn how to hunt. I would say that is way more important than tiny groups at the range. I pretty much had it figured out for day two muley hunting. Stayed high on the windy ridges till I was at or near the highest point then dropped into the bottoms of the coulee network. Worked my way carefully down through them, wind in my face. Could have shot eleven deer easily all less than 100 yards (usually much less) before I found the one I wanted. I knew that's how it would play out ... because that's how it's played out a hundred times. Incidentally, I had never hunted those coulees before.

 

[shrapnel]

This past week I took one 300+ yard shot at a muley buck in 50+ mph wind off my bipod sitting atop the daypack. Though well anchored it was hopeless in that hurricane. Stupid. Dropped him in his tracks the next day offhand in 25 mph wind at 65 yards.

I think there's many other factors more important than sub-MOA. A good trigger is up near the top of the list. Spend a little time at the range getting familiar with it. Or simply dry firing it in the house is sufficient. Next is learn how to hunt. I would say that is way more important than tiny groups at the range. I pretty much had it figured out for day two muley hunting. Stayed high on the windy ridges till I was at or near the highest point then dropped into the bottoms of the coulee network. Worked my way carefully down through them, wind in my face. Could have shot eleven deer easily all less than 100 yards (usually much less) before I found the one I wanted. I knew that's how it would play out ... because that's how it's played out a hundred times. Incidentally, I had never hunted those coulees before.

It is hard to not be critical of what you post, but I think you may want to quit being honest or stop doing stupid things...

 

[Bambistew]

I got's'ta know the rifle can outperform me...so sub-minute with optimal range conditions reduces a crunch-time field checklist.

In theory that sounds reasonable and I agree, in reality... I've seen guys with "laser" rifles miss at 200 yards by 3 feet or more.

Like @BuzzH , I know my limits and get closer or as close as I can, or just pass. I'm sure there are people that could have made many of those shots, and many that would have missed. All I know is there isn't a big difference between a rifle shooting 1/2 at 100 and 1.5" when you're shooting in the field.

One of the funniest things I've ever witnessed, and I regret not filming it. I watched 3 guys pile out of a big RV to light up a dozen caribou that were about 150 yards off the road, maybe... They unloaded their rifles, two had to run back in get more ammo, they came out and shot some more. Probably 12-14 shots fired, nothing dropped. We were parked on the road maybe 75-100 yards behind them and couldn't believe what we saw. It was a herd of cows and a couple baby bulls. These guys were decked out in Sitka gear head to toe, so you know they were serious hunters. Every time I think of that scenario, I hear the Benny Hill song in my head.

Don't sweat the small things.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

In theory that sounds reasonable and I agree, in reality... I've seen guys with "laser" rifles miss at 200 yards by 3 feet or more.

Like @BuzzH , I know my limits and get closer or as close as I can, or just pass. I'm sure there are people that could have made many of those shots, and many that would have missed. All I know is there isn't a big difference between a rifle shooting 1/2 at 100 and 1.5" when you're shooting in the field.

One of the funniest things I've ever witnessed, and I regret not filming it. I watched 3 guys pile out of a big RV to light up a dozen caribou that were about 150 yards off the road, maybe... They unloaded their rifles, two had to run back in get more ammo, they came out and shot some more. Probably 12-14 shots fired, nothing dropped. We were parked on the road maybe 75-100 yards behind them and couldn't believe what we saw. It was a herd of cows and a couple baby bulls. These guys were decked out in Sitka gear head to toe, so you know they were serious hunters. Every time I think of that scenario, I hear the Benny Hill song in my head.

Don't sweat the small things.

 

[OntarioHunter]

It is hard to not be critical of what you post, but I think you may want to quit being honest or stop doing stupid things...

I quickly came to the same conclusion. Hopefully someone else learns from an almost mistake. Yeah, the gun can shoot 300 yards at the range sitting at a bench ... but not in a tornado prone on uneven ground. Honesty is a virtue that seems in short supply these days. Not surprised you are critical. Very few appreciate it anymore.

 

[KB_]

It is hard to not be critical of what you post, but I think you may want to quit being honest or stop doing stupid things...

I like the humor.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

I think that extra tight groups from the bench are overrated and breed confidence that can be completely unfounded in real life hunting situations. I would not hesitate to hunt with a 1 and 1/4 inch rifle.

I do it every year

 

[Redmt]

I've been out in my shop doing some final tweeks on my 2 best loads for my new to me .300 . I started to think that I have killed more game by quantity with my Mini-14. One shot and down. Most of the shots on piggies are in the ear at 150 or less all with Barnes loads. I've taken 2-3 out of a herd a bunch of times. The first one gets it in the ear, the rest get it wherever a kill shot is available. Anything over 4-5-6 shots probably won't hit anything close at 100. The rifle doesn't have that capability no matter what I feed it.

 

[Irishman]

How good is good enough? I'm horrible when it comes to sighting in a rifle, I just don't get good groups. Same thing with a bow, I do okay when practicing, but just okay. On the other hand, I've never shot a rifle at a deer or elk, and not killed it, and the last time I shot at something with my bow and didn't kill was 2006. I repeat - I am NOT a good shot, I'm horrible. My point is that it's more to do with the shots you choose to take, and how focused you are when the opportunity to shoot happens.

 

[Brian in Montana]

The more I've handload, I really don't get very excited about a combination that won't shoot .75 MOA consistently, or better. That's kinda become my personal benchmark. SubMOA accuracy is probably not necessary for most hunting applications when you get right down to it, but it is fun and personally satisfying to put 5 shots in the same hole at 100yds. There's also a big confidence factor in knowing the rifle and ammo I'm hunting with shoots tiny little groups.

 

[Don Fischer]

I have a couple rifles that go 1/2". well off a bench with bags! Can't do that from field positions. What I do look for is 1" off the bench and at that point I have a hunting rifle. Lord knows even 1" is better than I can do from field positions. My elk rifle, a custom 1903 in 30-06 will go right at 1 1/4" off the bench and my 6.5x55 will also only do 1 1/4" from the bench. Both are hunting rifles and more than good enough for me. I won't shoot over 300yds at a game animal and have only done that one time. Most big game I've shot has been around 250yds and less, more less than not! I do have a range finder but seldom remember to take it along. When I do I check range to spots in front of me so I have an idea of where to shoot. many years ago a friend and I guessed ranges and then stepped them off, there weren't range finder's back then. We checked our 100 foot step range against a measured 100 yd target at a local range, we were damn good out to about 300yds, give or take. And Our rifles were zeroed in about 3" high at 100 yds. Pretty much what we'd call max point blank at an 8" target today, but then MPBR was not a term in use back then. back then guy's claiming to shoot well in access of 300yds were challanged to prove it; few of them could do it! I suspect even fewer that claim it today can do it. Had a guy show up one day claiming his Remington bench rest rifle he could shoot a hole in the target and the next shot in the same hole. Didn't even come close! So much for I'm a great shot!

There are guy's that shoot much better than most of us. They have special rifles and do a lot of practicing, a lot! They seldom tell anyone how good they are, they would rather show you!

 

[Farmerj]

I expect this kind of performance off the bench, relaxed and in a casual environment.


I expect my performance to be able to do that all the way to the MPBR and limit of the bullet to carry the energy to make a solid connection and do it’s job.

Because when it comes to making the shot, being winded, position, lighting, etc in the field, it lets me worry of other things and not if the gun is capable.

Not because I expect or plan to make those 450-600 yard hunting shots,

But because it makes those 150-300 yard shots that much easier knowing you’ve practiced for it to be an ethical sportsman.

 

[Mallardsx2]

My father-in-law has killed more deer than EHD and he sights in on the center of a pieplate at 100 yards and calls it a day.

I reload until I’m sub 1” groups at 100 yards and then I stop wasting ammo.

 

[Dan O]

I expect this kind of performance off the bench, relaxed and in a casual environment.
View attachment 248546View attachment 248547

I expect my performance to be able to do that all the way to the MPBR and limit of the bullet to carry the energy to make a solid connection and do it’s job.

Because when it comes to making the shot, being winded, position, lighting, etc in the field, it lets me worry of other things and not if the gun is capable.

Not because I expect or plan to make those 450-600 yard hunting shots,

But because it makes those 150-300 yard shots that much easier knowing you’ve practiced for it to be an ethical sportsman.

Who shot the other rounds in the targets?

 

[sclancy27]

I think that extra tight groups from the bench are overrated and breed confidence that can be completely unfounded in real life hunting situations. I would not hesitate to hunt with a 1 and 1/4 inch rifle.

I have a buddy that is neurotic about getting the smallest possible groups. Shoots steel out to 1000 yds and all that. You get him in the field with a breathing animal in front of him and all bets are off, constantly spining stuff or outright missing. How bout spend some time practicing in field conditions instead of off a bench sled chasing a 0.25 MOA group?

 

[millerkiller77]

I am a bad one to ask.
View attachment 248124
I expect this from my rifles. Browning X bolt Hells Canyon Speed rifle in .308.
View attachment 248126
Not as happy with this. Kimber Montana .300wsm.

If I could get my Montana 300wsm to do that I'd be proud

 

[Don Fischer]

What is good enough! I've read from what I consier a realiable sourse, 1 1/2" is good enough. And, I think that's right! But I zero rifles to max point blank range and have only exceeded that one time in my life. A 1 1/2" group in theory at 300yds would be 4 1/2"! Then consider shooting from a field position and where you at then. For most, I suspect few can shoot 4 1/2" groups on a regular basis at 300yds from a field position? So, I think the need of the group is dependent on the range you are willing to shoot and the cover in the country you hunt! I think hunting skills that allow you to get close are more valuable than precission of the rifle! Many people today are trading hunting skill's for shooting skills and calling it good! If you are a skilled shooter, how good of a hunter do you actually have to be?

 

[KoolBreeze]

My father-in-law has killed more deer than EHD and he sights in on the center of a pieplate at 100 yards and calls it a day.

I reload until I’m sub 1” groups at 100 yards and then I stop wasting ammo.

Sounds like my dad. He was recently observing me sight in a new scope and I had close after a few shots then started shooting groups with different ammo. After about dozen shots or so he asked, "What does ammo for that rifle cost?" I replied, "Well it's a 280AI and hard to find so right now it's around $5 a shot off the shelf, if you can find it.". He sat quietly while I fired another dozen rounds or so. Then when I was happy, I said, "I think that's good enough, you?" He said, "Son I would quit a $100 ago!". Haha!

 

[BillDoe708]

I won't leave the house with a rifle that's unable to shoot 2" groups at 1000yds.

Don't leave home much do ya

 

[Redman]

If I could get my Montana 300wsm to do that I'd be proud

Lots and lots of load development and putting on the muzzle break. I detest muzzle breaks...