History of Eastern and Western Style Antler Point Count

[Lefty315]

I prefer inches. For example, this cow measured 23 inches ear tip to ear tip. I don’t use the inside spread of the ears, I want the entire measurement.

 

[Pahoundsman]

That brings up an interesting question. I'm not sure. If you look up PA, or KY record elk, the articles I found in a quick search don't bother to mention antler point count at all, they just tell you the score. Do eastern elk hunters count the points on an elk's antlers the same way they would on a deer? One would think so, but maybe not. To complicate things further, the dude who holds the record PA elk is from Washington.

He bought the governor’s tag and some boys sat on the bull till he showed. They count’m like the western boys.

 

[Walkathon]

Grew up in Nebraska (170 miles West of Omaha) and we always used 4X4, 4X5 etc description for Whitetails. I live in MN now and it's eastern count. 8 pt, 9pt etc.....

 

[seeth07]

What an interesting topic.

I actually think both ways suck and on their own, tells me nothing. Someone already pointed out that there is a huge difference in both mulies and whitetails that are 4 point or 8 point bucks.

so what makes more sense to me and what i do is generally decribe buck age.

Tonight (seriously go read and check out my thread!) we spotted a good mature buck, likely a 3 1/2 yo. We decided to not shoot him as he was range but instead shortly after we spotted an older more mature buck. The first buck was later shot by someone else. You now all have a pretty good idea of the two types of bucks I'm talking about. You are picturing a solid 4x4 for the 3 1/2 and are probably wondering just how beastly the other one was!

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

As civilization has expanded farther into the western world, those of us in the West possess a much more advanced understanding of counting and generally breathe with our mouths closed.

This is funny - I've lived in 13 States - thought it was the opposite

 

[Schaaf]

This is funny - I've lived in 13 States - thought it was the opposite

Blocked and reported

 

[beginnerhunter]

OK my theory:

When hunting gained truly mass appeal post WW2 the US population was concentrated in areas where WT deer existed but in small #s compared to now. Like 10% of what they are now (in the east). So during the 1950s it would have been rare to see a 1.5 or 2.5 year old main frame 8 point WT buck. If you saw a 3.5 year old main frame 10 point people also knew what you meant (and WT often have nice brows and it seems silly to pretend they aren't there). So using total number of points became shorthand for WT buck size/age. Now that there are many more older WT bucks that shorthand doesn't really make sense. In 2022 you might say "I saw this nice 4.5 year old 10 point main frame buck with several kickers, a drop tine, and nice brows probably score 145" or something like that. Back in 1975 they'd go "there's gotta be a dozen points or more on that monster."

The West being less densely populated by humans but with good MD numbers post WW2 it would've been pretty common to see mature MD bucks (many without brow tines at all) so you would say "hey that's a nice mature 5x4 with an inline on the left side and several kickers" whether it is 1955 or 2022.

I'd also add that people often glass MD and elk for HOURS while whitetail sightings in the eastern forests are much more ephemeral. But with the ubiquitous use of trail cameras allowing detailed study of WT bucks, the old way of describing them isn't as relevant.

 

[Schaaf]

OK my theory:

When hunting gained truly mass appeal post WW2 the US population was concentrated in areas where WT deer existed but in small #s compared to now. Like 10% of what they are now (in the east). So during the 1950s it would have been rare to see a 1.5 or 2.5 year old main frame 8 point WT buck. If you saw a 3.5 year old main frame 10 point people also knew what you meant (and WT often have nice brows and it seems silly to pretend they aren't there). So using total number of points became shorthand for WT buck size/age. Now that there are many more older WT bucks that shorthand doesn't really make sense. In 2022 you might say "I saw this nice 4.5 year old 10 point main frame buck with several kickers, a drop tine, and nice brows probably score 145" or something like that. Back in 1975 they'd go "there's gotta be a dozen points or more on that monster."

The West being less densely populated by humans but with good MD numbers post WW2 it would've been pretty common to see mature MD bucks (many without brow tines at all) so you would say "hey that's a nice mature 5x4 with an inline on the left side and several kickers" whether it is 1955 or 2022.

I'd also add that people often glass MD and elk for HOURS while whitetail sightings in the eastern forests are much more ephemeral. But with the ubiquitous use of trail cameras allowing detailed study of WT bucks, the old way of describing them isn't as relevant.

tl;dr Post #2 really lays it out IMO.

 

[Brad]

I've always considered the Western Point Method (WPM lol) to be part of the general Western ethos of understating any given thing.

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

When I was a kid, no one talked about points except to say that it was a nice trophy after the fact. Folks talked about animal size in weight - the ones that got away were all seemingly 300+ lbs. I think that was because it was primarily thought of as food.

 

[Brad]

When I was a kid, no one talked about points except to say that it was a nice trophy after the fact. Folks talked about animal size in weight - the ones that got away were all seemingly 300+ lbs. I think that was because it was primarily thought of as food.

Especially true in Northern New England.

 

[Howie]

Hangin' by the neck or back legs. Counting all points or on each side. Hmmmm ... seems hangin n countin' was started in the east looooong before people even got out west. Sorta looks like the east method oughta be the right one.

 

[gouch]

Last weekend my wife and third oldest daughter went to Lakeview OR. for my father-in-law's birthday party. Last night my daughter told me that they saw the biggest eight point buck she has ever seen, right in the middle of town.

I thought I taught her better than that.

 

[TheTone]

Friend of mine that has spent his entire life in the west will most often refer to whitetails eastern style but will occasionally give them a western style count but not count the eyeguards. It’s weird and confusing

 

[hank4elk]

I prefer inches. For example, this cow measured 23 inches ear tip to ear tip. I don’t use the inside spread of the ears, I want the entire measurement.View attachment 251528

My largest bodied elk was an cow that measured 9 feet from nose tip to tail....

 

[Lefty315]

My largest bodied elk was an cow that measured 9 feet from nose tip to tail....

I’ll Try and do better next time