HB 26, lighted knocks

[Khunter]

Glad to hear MBA is fighting this. Bowhunters should step up to support their state bowhunting organizarion. CBA, here in Colorado, holds a similar stance. They are just plain unnecessary and open a door I'd rather not see opened for western states or anyplace, really. And yes it is a slippry slope. We need to maintain some semblamce of a 'primitive' season or else these set aside seasons will be lost.

Bad enough we see crossbows as legal archery season tackle in some states. Next up will be those 44 mag tipped arrows I saw the other day. I can hear that argument already..."I shot it with my arrow already so having a 44 mag fire from the arrow tip upon impact is just ensuring less game loss/waste...makes me a better bow hunter"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd4X9naO_04

 

[spook12]

Khunter, when you say ''Primitive'' is it the cams,laser rangefinders, fall away rests, mechanical broadheads or carbon shafts that you are talking about.

''Primitive'' hasn't been around in quite some time,as far as what equipment states have deemed legal.

 

[belly-deep]

I disagree. The legislature are mostly radical tea baggers who feel like wildlife are preventing them from making money. You definitely don't want the legislature telling FWP what to do. The lighted nock bill seems innocent enough, but there are bills out there ranging from making bison livestock to having MFWP pay for elk brucellosis testing.

People elect the legislature, then the legislature votes on issues. That's how it is supposed to work, even if you don't like the outcome.

If anything, the FWP is an abomination to the constitution. Law making authority is supposed to rest with the legislature, not an administrative agency.

 

[Khunter]

Khunter, when you say ''Primitive'' is it the cams,laser rangefinders, fall away rests, mechanical broadheads or carbon shafts that you are talking about.

''Primitive'' hasn't been around in quite some time,as far as what equipment states have deemed legal.

I am not calling it 'primitive' or primitive weapon, the state wildlife departments do in reference to the seasons designated as such. The reason to fend off attempts to allow electronics of all types is to preserve the seasons and the opportunity they provide. Electronic device restriction is a simple and effective way to thwart unreasonable attempts by manufacturers and others to push archery tackle to the point they are just too effective and reach out too many yards to the point that tags will get cut or the seasons themselves would get dropped. Just not worth the downside risk to let bows become electronic devices. AS noted, the technology of just the mechanical bow is getting over the top already. Bottom line, there has to be some threshold that should not be crossed. Electronic gadgets integral to the bow and arrow is a no brainer for restriction. It is not the nock that is the issuie, it is the next gizmo that takes it even further down the path to where 'primitive' has become such a joke it loses support.

 

[Khunter]

People elect the legislature, then the legislature votes on issues. That's how it is supposed to work, even if you don't like the outcome.

If anything, the FWP is an abomination to the constitution. Law making authority is supposed to rest with the legislature, not an administrative agency.

that's some scary chit right there. legislatures are dominated by citified idgits as relates to protecting sportsmans interests.

 

[muleguy]

The reason to fend off attempts to allow electronics of all types is to preserve the seasons and the opportunity they provide. Electronic device restriction is a simple and effective way to thwart unreasonable attempts by manufacturers and others to push archery tackle to the point they are just too effective and reach out too many yards to the point that tags will get cut or the seasons themselves would get dropped. Just not worth the downside risk to let bows become electronic devices. AS noted, the technology of just the mechanical bow is getting over the top already. Bottom line, there has to be some threshold that should not be crossed. Electronic gadgets integral to the bow and arrow is a no brainer for restriction. It is not the nock that is the issuie, it is the next gizmo that takes it even further down the path to where 'primitive' has become such a joke it loses support.

You explained it much better than my feeble attempt.

 

[shoots-straight]

You explained it much better than my feeble attempt.

I've been trying to explain this same thing to people in relation to long distance firearm shooting. Being able to kill animals at 1000 yards will ultimately hurt our seasons, and opportunity. The more successful you are the more restrictive season structures must be.

Resources are not infinite.

 

[wyoming556]

I am not calling it 'primitive' or primitive weapon, the state wildlife departments do in reference to the seasons designated as such. The reason to fend off attempts to allow electronics of all types is to preserve the seasons and the opportunity they provide. Electronic device restriction is a simple and effective way to thwart unreasonable attempts by manufacturers and others to push archery tackle to the point they are just too effective and reach out too many yards to the point that tags will get cut or the seasons themselves would get dropped. Just not worth the downside risk to let bows become electronic devices. AS noted, the technology of just the mechanical bow is getting over the top already. Bottom line, there has to be some threshold that should not be crossed. Electronic gadgets integral to the bow and arrow is a no brainer for restriction. It is not the nock that is the issuie, it is the next gizmo that takes it even further down the path to where 'primitive' has become such a joke it loses support.

So states that allow "archery tacke" like electronic devices or even crossbows that can reach out "too many yards" are going to have thier "tags cut" or "seasons dropped"?

What state has done that with tags or seasons?

 

[spook12]

Khunter I agree with most of what you are saying,but these lighted knocks don't fit into your criteria of making a bow more effective. Of all the things that have come down the pipe in the last few years these things are nothing.

There are ''Real'' battles to be fought and this just isn't it in my opinion.If we truly want to limit what archery equipment can do, we are gonna have to limit the engineering IMO.

 

[Khunter]

Khunter I agree with most of what you are saying,but these lighted knocks don't fit into your criteria of making a bow more effective. Of all the things that have come down the pipe in the last few years these things are nothing.

There are ''Real'' battles to be fought and this just isn't it in my opinion.If we truly want to limit what archery equipment can do, we are gonna have to limit the engineering IMO.

Like i said it is not the nocks, specifically, it is that it is easier (and appropriate) to keep all electronics off bows than it is to cherry pick which are acceptable. Forgo all electronics and a whole category of new problems are prevented. On board range finders and Computer aided aiming, laser sights that auto adjust for distance...whatever else they will invent. None of that crap belongs in an archery season. Block them all and not have to refught the same fight over andover and over and....

The folks who work hard to preserve bow hunter opportunity. MBA and other state bowhunter orgs have more important things to devote limited resource to than evaluating and fending off ech new electronic gadget. Block them all and be done with it.

Anyway, one bowhunters perspective.

 

[schmalts]

I feel lighted knocks are a good idea. They can help in the recovery of an already hit animal by giving the hunter a better view of were the arrow hit. If it looks like an elk is hit further back then the hunter can make a better choice of giving the animal more time before beginning the tracking job. Lighted knocks mean lest waisted game.

What he said

 

[dustinf]

A lighted knock is not a crossbow.

It's a gadget that has nothing to do with how someone aims, shoots, or hunts. It helps to find an arrow in the woods, or may possibly help to see where an impact is.

It blows my mind, that this is a matter worthy of a state legislature or even a bowhunter association. It's just silly, and a waste of time and resources.

 

[BOHNTR]

You have to draw the line somewhere so this is as good a place as any. You don't need electronics on your bow.
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I completely agree with this statement. Electronics attached to the bow or arrow is the line we're talking about here, folks.......not whether or not lighted knocks aide the hunter in any manner or that they're the devil!

This is an old argument that never seems to go away, as we discuss it annually on the P&Y committee as well. The Club has the same stance; no electronics (of any kind) can be attached to the bow or arrow. If allowed, I'm afraid Pandora's Box will forever be open.

 

[Straight Arrow]

With the paint technology and brightly colored fletching and nocks, are electronic lighted nocks really a significant improvement? Do they solve an existing problem with archery hunting? Will the exception to the "no artificial or electronic" lighting lead to further expansion of electronic and other high tech aids that open the discussion to classifying archery weapons alongside muzzleloaders, pistols, crossbows, etc. ... and finally degrade the rationale for separate archery seasons?

Is this just another idea to satisfy the desires and wants of a minority of Montana citizens when there are so many large problems which need to be addressed through the legislature, but never seem to get resolved?

Above are legitimate questions that beg for serious consideration before passing and implementing a new law that then changes forever the essence of the longstanding perception of the "bigger challenge" to hunt with archery equipment. There are already those non-hunters and those rifle hunters who question the "primitive" aspect of the new generation of archery equipment. Do you really want to pour more fuel on that fire?

 

[Mudranger1]

Anyway, one bowhunters perspective.

unfortunately I think this is a far cry from the vast majority of bow hunters opinions...now I'm not a member of the CBA but do follow their FB and it seemed to me when this issue came up here in Colorado that the overwhelming response was for the CBA to support lighted nocks..but they didn't have a certain number of people respond so the leaders got to choose which way they wanted to support....To me that is awfully sketchy and doesn't represent what the majority of its people were in favor of...kind of put in perspective if I wanted to actually join this type of organization

 

[Mudranger1]

This is an old argument that never seems to go away, as we discuss it annually on the P&Y committee as well. The Club has the same stance; no electronics (of any kind) can be attached to the bow or arrow. If allowed, I'm afraid Pandora's Box will forever be open.

so your telling me that none of these monster bucks shot on tv are never entered into P&Y? ehh maybe I can believe that..but also I used to read that P&Y had a bow let-off rule too that none of today's bows would meet...I think it was 65%..is that still true or has that been updated?

 

[TLC]

why is this so hard? no electronic attachments can be permanently attached to a bow. not sure about the rest of the bow hunters on here, but don't keep my arrows attached permanantly to my bow. lighted nocks do not help take any more game than a normal nock. it's for those of us who like seeing where the critter is hit, and for finding the arrow after the shot. that's all these things do for the shooter.

 

[spook12]

Mudranger you are correct, P&Y changed the let off requirement from 65% up to i believe 85%.

In my opinion when we draw arbitrary lines in the sand we just look ''Silly''. The fact that a lot of ''Traditionalist'' will shoot a mechanical broadhead mounted on a carbon shaft out of a parallel limb,radical cam bow all the while screaming about the evils of a lighted knock seems crazy to me.

 

[BOHNTR]

so your telling me that none of these monster bucks shot on tv are never entered into P&Y?

Believe it or not, many are not. There are some exceptions, but those taken with lighted knocks are not entered or accepted. Let-off used to be 50%, then 65%, now there's no restriction on let-off. Rules are changed and modified as the Club grows.....just like any club or organization I suppose. However, in terms of electronics attached to the bow or arrow, I don't see that changing ever within P&Y.

no electronic attachments can be permanently attached to a bow. not sure about the rest of the bow hunters on here, but don't keep my arrows attached permanantly to my bow.

The rule (or statutes for some states) is no electronic equipment attached to the bow OR arrow.

 

[wyoming556]

Mudranger you are correct, P&Y changed the let off requirement from 65% up to i believe 85%.

In my opinion when we draw arbitrary lines in the sand we just look ''Silly''. The fact that a lot of ''Traditionalist'' will shoot a mechanical broadhead mounted on a carbon shaft out of a parallel limb,radical cam bow all the while screaming about the evils of a lighted knock seems crazy to me.

Well put.

What's even more silly is to try and make people belive the archery tags will be cut and archery seasons will be dropped if things like lighted knocks are approved for use. Completely ridiculous Khunter.