HB 196 Overriding IDFG Managment

[huntnpack]

Looks like a moratorium on doe harvest left the house. IWF and others oppose it.

Seems pretty heavy handed and not very nimble to me.

 

[nrpate05]

I assume it applies to youth hunts as well?

 

[Elkmagnet]

Idaho fish and game has been resistant to public input about mule deer doe harvest for far too long. Refusing to close doe hunts In many areas for a plethora of reasons. They do need to lower doe harvest and improve wintering habitat post fire to bring back Idahos mule deer.
Unfortunately things are coming to this. It probably won't do much long term good and may be detrimental to MD without major habitat restoration.
It's a path to legislative management of wildlife where hunters WILL get the short end of the stick.
I hope it fails to pass but also I hope it gets IDF&G to take notice.

 

[Potsie]

I agree with the sentiment, but not the mechanism.

Management by legislature is never a good option.

 

[Trap]

I am AGAINST politicians making any wildlife management decisions. The legislature is setting a dangerous precedent wading into game management. I do agree totally with limiting mule deer doe harvest. Fish and game needs to be the one making the decision not politicians

 

[idelkslayer]

Time for another series of emails to the House Resources and Conservation committee. I just sent them all an email about Ron Meldive's latest attempt to dictate muzzleloader rules.

 

[brymoore]

Idaho fish and game has been resistant to public input about mule deer doe harvest for far too long. Refusing to close doe hunts In many areas for a plethora of reasons. They do need to lower doe harvest and improve wintering habitat post fire to bring back Idahos mule deer.
Unfortunately things are coming to this. It probably won't do much long term good and may be detrimental to MD without major habitat restoration.
It's a path to legislative management of wildlife where hunters WILL get the short end of the stick.
I hope it fails to pass but also I hope it gets IDF&G to take notice.

I agree with your sentiment.

IDFG’s management of mule deer does needs to be discussed. IDFG is proposing a 1k extra doe tags in 39. Crazy.

However, the legislature should not be directing wildlife management. It goes against the idea of the Fish and Game Commission which was created by public votes to manage IDFG and wildlife.

 

[idelkslayer]

I agree with your sentiment.

IDFG’s management of mule deer does needs to be discussed. IDFG is proposing a 1k extra doe tags in 39. Crazy.

However, the legislature should not be directing wildlife management. It goes against the idea of the Fish and Game Commission which was created by public votes to manage IDFG and wildlife.

What do you think of the justification they gave in the proposals for the addition of those antlerless tags? Just curious what your counter argument would be. There southwest region is the one area I haven't hunted and I don't have a dog in that fight but I am curious from an overall public perception and data perspective. There is some discussion on it in the video linked below.

Southwest - Nampa Region Deer Proposals

idfg.idaho.gov

 

[brymoore]

What do you think of the justification they gave in the proposals for the addition of those antlerless tags? Just curious what your counter argument would be. There southwest region is the one area I haven't hunted and I don't have a dog in that fight but I am curious from an overall public perception and data perspective. There is some discussion on it in the video linked below.

Southwest - Nampa Region Deer Proposals

idfg.idaho.gov

IDFG makes a strong case. I’d rather listen to science than politics.

I live in and hunt 39. There is more than enough room for more deer. However, the fawn argument is worth considering.

The 1,000 extra doe tags will make the unit similar to a free fire zone in the Mekong Delta. Wear lots of orange. Maybe carry an air horn. Tell your wife you love her before you leave the house.

 

[huntnpack]

The 1,000 extra doe tags will make the unit similar to a free fire zone in the Mekong Delta. Wear lots of orange. Maybe carry an air horn. Tell your wife you love her before you leave the house.

I did think I was going to get caught in a muzzleloader drive by on a shelf road last September. White suburban with adult driver, adult passenger, and 4 teenagers all with muzzleloaders (driver included) hanging out the windows looking for and shooting at does. I was terrified to move in my position down slope and they somehow never saw me. Even whistled. They never heard me. I’d say a lack of enforcement is to blame mostly though.

 

[idelkslayer]

IDFG makes a strong case. I’d rather listen to science than politics.

I live in and hunt 39. There is more than enough room for more deer. However, the fawn argument is worth considering.

The 1,000 extra doe tags will make the unit similar to a free fire zone in the Mekong Delta. Wear lots of orange. Maybe carry an air horn. Tell your wife you love her before you leave the house.

I was surprised to see the data on fawns weights being low even after the die offs. I would have expected fawn weights to rise with fewer deer on the landscape but there are other factors like moisture and fire that can affect range conditions.

Again, I'm not very familiar with that area, what have you seen that might explain the fawn weight situation? Was the winter kill followed by drought conditions?

 

[brymoore]

I was surprised to see the data on fawns weights being low even after the die offs. I would have expected fawn weights to rise with fewer deer on the landscape but there are other factors like moisture and fire that can affect range conditions.

Again, I'm not very familiar with that area, what have you seen that might explain the fawn weight situation? Was the winter kill followed by drought conditions?

When we had the bad winter a few years ago, my family and I could count dead mule deer on the winter range we drove home through each night. White bellies on yellow grass. We were above 20 each day. Our high day was around 40.

I don’t see any dead deer now except for road kills. I’m looking to see mule deer grazing each night. I’m still seeing 200ish deer grazing each night. Some of the winter ground was burnt last fall.

At some point in the last 12 years we had a good die off because a storm caught the deer too high to get out of deep snow. I found dead deer in high places cutting wood in May. I don’t find dead fawns or remains when I’m in the countryside in the spring for several years. I spend a lot of time turkey hunting, bear hunting, morel hunting and cutting wood in the unit in the spring.

I understand the biologist’s argument. I’m curious if it’ll work. Is it animal numbers or another factor? Elk numbers have been growing steadily for years. Are the deer unsuccessful in competing against elk for feed? I don’t see any variance in habitat except a portion of the winter range burns every year. There are thousands of other winter acres to graze. Water has been good for several years.

I don’t think it’s a predator issue. I’m not seeing any variance in my predator sighting. In fact, I’m seeing moose consistently in the unit in areas I hadn’t seen a moose in 20 years. Wolves will kill moose first.

I find it very hard to believe that the unit is at its holding capacity for mule deer. It’s larger than Rhode Island. Summer scouting shows mule deer herds widely distributed in the countryside.

However, I’m not a biologist.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I was surprised to see the data on fawns weights being low even after the die offs. I would have expected fawn weights to rise with fewer deer on the landscape but there are other factors like moisture and fire that can affect range conditions.

Again, I'm not very familiar with that area, what have you seen that might explain the fawn weight situation? Was the winter kill followed by drought conditions?

I wasn't able to see the fawn data just now. I do like where your thoughts go on it.
My thoughts are.
We know we have a lower population than we did at times in the recent past. We also know how those times corelate with fawn weight. IMO what may be lacking is sample size and proof of causation/ consideration that there are many other variables.
Every management decision is a scientific experiment. Let's try if we have a bad winter we immediately stop all doe harvest in 39 for a couple years. Record the environmentals and the results.
Idf&g seems happy to micromanage animals IF it involves adding female harvest. It doesn't seem willing to micromanage to reduce female harvest.
These recommendations are another example. The SW region deer are hurting with 3 bad winters and poor winter habitat to blame. Heard size isn't the variable that was causing low weight.
It's habitat. Adding doe tags in 39 has been the solution for every problem 39 has ever had. We are simultaneously worried about too many does(too high fawn survival) and poor fawn conditions that might lead to low fawn survival so we are going to harvest does because we are afraid of the long term effect on plants.
What percentage of the winter range is being grazed? How many AUM per year vs in the 50s. I have a rancher buddy that says his cows ger to "rape and pillage" the winter grounds until October and every bit of vegetables belong to the grazing lease. How is that affecting plant life?
I see some variables being ignored.